 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Scott
Date: 2002-04-22 18:38
I would like some feedback from clarinet players experienced with young players. It seems to me that the B45 has become the buzz word for many band directors, particularly non-woodwind players. I am curious about this because in my experience as a music store owner I have heard hundreds of students try mouthpieces over the years and rarely, like one out of ten times do they sound best on a B45. To my trumpet player ears the B45 sounds spread and unfocused for most young players. Usually the players that sound best on the B45 are older more mature high school players that can handle the tip opening. Both of my main clarinet teachers (One from Julliard and one from Manhattan School) do not like the B45 for their young students. Where did this "buzz" come from (maybe it's just regional?) and how can we help band directors to be more open to other mouthpieces. BTW- Both of my teachers really like the Woodwind K10M, the Vandoren 5RV Lyre and the Jewel Concert for younger players. Thanks for any responses!
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Author: Paul
Date: 2002-04-22 18:57
When I was in Jr. High I had that horrible Jr. High sound and I was told to go down to the music store and get me a B45 m/p. It did next to nothing to my tone. I thought it was just me and that it would take years before I developed a good tone. I adventually quick music because I never thought I was playing music (because of my bad tone). I'm a returning clarinet player (42 years old) and my new teacher on my first lesson brought out several boxes full of m/p, barrels and ligs. Within the hour I was sounding like a semi-pro clarinet player. I have a new Selmer now but at the time I had a cheap plastic clarinet. But we changed my plastic barrel to a Buffet wood barrel. Out of a box of approx. 2 dozen m/p found a custom Blayman m/p that sounded the best. And finally settled on a silver lig. So yes, please spread the word. I'm still alittle P/Oed. Paul
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Author: GBK
Date: 2002-04-22 19:01
I recommend both the Fobes Debut and Hite Premiere for my beginners. Both are consistant, high quality products, easily affordable for a young student...GBK
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Author: Katfish
Date: 2002-04-22 19:55
Somewhere band directors all over the country have been told that the B45 is a good beginner mouhthpiece. Many people like it, (I find hard to controll) but it is not a beginner mouthpieceIMHO.I agree with GBK that the Hite, Fobes and I would add the Pyne poly crystal are better choices. Not only are they good for beginners, but they will last them for years until they may wish to spring for an expensive pro model.
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Author: BG
Date: 2002-04-22 21:34
I would also vote for the Fobes Debut and the Hite Premiere. They both produce an excellent sound and are among the best in being relatively consistent from one mouthpiece to another. Some of my colleagues have had better luck with the Pyne PolyCrystal than I have. I sent a mouthpiece back to Columbus and an email to Jim Pyne expressing my concerns over the last one I received and have yet to hear from him or get my mouthpiece back and this was a few weeks ago. Another option is to try and get some Zinner blanks from Muncy or International Musical Suppliers and have a local mouthpiece expert put a facing on them that you like. If you have such a person in the area, you can end up with a very nice mouthpiece at a fraction of the normal cost. Good luck and keep us posted with your results! BG
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Author: John
Date: 2002-04-22 22:51
My first two years on the clarinet I was using an EZ-Tone (LOL!) mouthpiece. The plastic was so incredibly cheap in that thing... I mean, I look at that mouthpiece now and there are actual physical dents from my teeth so deep that they dent even the inside of the mouthpiece a little. But nonetheless, it was a dandy starter mouthpiece. Getting a good tone though will encourage a beginner, so I recommend something a little more expensive than a $10 generic spit catcher.
As for the B45, I got that after the frist two years of playing and I loved it immediately. Perhaps it just really fit my mouth...back then I didn't really think it was hard to control but I also didn't really notice the difference of what is hard to control vs. what is easy to control. But now, after seven years of playing on the B45, I definately notice how hard it is to control and how uneven it is (also due to some major wearing down of the railings) and thus the reason I am switching to a Johnston "W" mouthpiece.
But I still think the B45 is a very good beginner mouthpiece, though it may not be for everyone.
Another thing, whether beginner or not, a good ligature is neccesary. I have been using an inverted Bonade since I got that B45 and it has been a wonderful (and cheaply priced!) ligature.
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Author: forest@woodwind.org
Date: 2002-04-22 23:25
My vote goes to the Fobes Debut. If you sell Vandoren and feel that you've got to sell the Vandoren over the Fobes or Hite, go with the 5RV or 5RVLyre (same mouthpiece) Both have a medium close tip opening and students can move up to reasonable stengh reed quickly. The last time I talked to Clark Fobes, he was making the Debut on a Babbit blank and spending some time putting a good facing on each mouthpiece...with very good result....and at half the price of the Vandoren. (even on a good day)
I agree with your observations with the B45. It is a far more difficult mouthpiece to control and is very tough for a beginning clarinet student.
F. Aten
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2002-04-23 04:03
IMHO (and I have said this before on this bulletin board and the clarinet list), the B45 is a TERRIBLE mouthpiece to inflict on a beginner. Vandoren's specifications indicate a tip opening of 119.5 mm. Even with a medium long facing, this is far too resistant for a beginner. I cringe to think how many young players may have given up the clarinet because of this mouthpiece.
I will add my recommendation for the Hite Premier and Fobes Debut mouthpieces. I think both are exceptionally well-made and represent good value. Personally, I find the Fobes a little more resistant than the Hite so I think the Hite is a little better for an absolute beginner but a Fobes will take longer to "outgrow." My daughter started on a Hite and played it for a couple of years. Then, when her chops had developed some, she switched to a Fobes. Actually, I use a Fobes Debut on my "travelling"/bad weather clarinet.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: Kim
Date: 2002-04-23 04:04
I wasn't aware of the Fobes Debut, but for a really cheap beginner mouthpiece, I'd vote for the Hite Premiere. I also have had a lot of success with the Vandoren M13Lyre's with beginners. They're a little bit more expensive, but are very responsive/playable, especially when compared to the B45.
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Author: Willie
Date: 2002-04-23 05:49
I gotta cast my vote for the Pyne Polycrystal. Good, easy blowing MPc and easy to see if its been cleaned regularly.
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Author: Stéphane
Date: 2002-04-23 08:37
I've started clarineting very recently, and was recommended to switch the original mp that came with my horn for a 5RV lyre. This is definitely a great mp for beginners. I heard that even some pro players stick to it. I've since tried a B45, a pomarico crystal saphire (equivalent to B45) and an M15 which is now my favorite. But depending on the sound I want (and subsequently the strength of the reed I want to use) I am switching between my different mps.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2002-04-23 16:59
Another vote for Fobes debut. He also makes some other mid and pro line mouthpieces that are great. If I were to go Vandoren, it would be 5RVlyre or perhaps something in the M series. The B45 is too open, especially for young students. It is hard to obtain a nice focussed tone. Since there are people out there (Fobes, Hite and other Woodwind.org sponsors for example) making some nice handworked stuff at a reasonable price, they is worth checking out.
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Author: Kirk
Date: 2002-04-24 00:16
For my 2 cents worth, I also would highly recommend either the Hite Premier or Vandoren's 5RV. I had great success with both although I like the Hite a bit better Your mileage may vary as the saying goes. I had one of the tooth dented mpc's myself before the Hite. I tried the Hite and then the Vandy. Give them a decent trial and decide for yourself which you like.
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Author: David Dow
Date: 2002-04-24 01:44
5RV Lyre with 3 or 3 1/2 reeds after a time with lighter reeds first.
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Author: mary
Date: 2002-04-25 03:48
More votes for Clark Fobes' Debut. They're consistent, more than reasonable, and have worked well for almost all my students.
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Author: Allen Cole
Date: 2002-04-25 18:52
For a really young kid, I like the Fobes best and then the Hite. With intermediate kids, I have them try both the B45 and the 5RV. Most like the 5RV and I can usually get them to quickly upgrade their reed strength as well.
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Author: Phil
Date: 2002-04-26 02:27
I swiched to the B45 somewhere in my third year of playing. At first, I hated it. I had started with a generic Selmer mouthpiece, and was getting a decent sound out of it. When I made the switch, it felt like I was blowing into a rock. The resistance was really hard to adapt to, but it gave my chops a great workout! By the time I had overcome the resistance, my tone had jumped to a whole new level. The resistance is probably not ideal for very early players, but it is an excellent cross-over mouthpiece.
As for the young beginners, the Selmer mouthpiece was no hinderance. On that mouthpiece it is easy to good volume and decent tone compared to some others I've played (stay away from the Yamaha 4C!!!!!)
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Author: Robert Gifford
Date: 2002-04-30 17:41
For my younger players I always recommend the Fobes Debut. Its a great lower costing mouthpeice that can get a wide variety of tones. I like this mouthpeice mainly due to its price, it allows people to grow on it, before deciding on a more expensive mouthpeice to finally settle on. I've used the Fobes Debut, for most student from the Beginning to Intermediate range with good sucess. Usually during the intermediate to advanced range I try to have them upgrade to a 5RV, 5RVL, or B45.
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Author: David dow Symphony NB
Date: 2002-05-01 03:17
Of course the main problem is with mouthpieces is that not everyone is suited to the same facing as someone else, but before sounding crazy I feel the best thing most beginners should do is go to a teacher with experience. Stronger people will have no problem with an open tip, or med.open as the B45. Yet, other players will sound much better on something very closed. My own personal observation over 15 years of teaching is the Vandoren 5RV Lyre is an excellent mouthpiece mainly because of the ease of control of the sound...the newer Hite student models are very fine although hard to get in Canada. A great danger to good playing at the early stages also seems to be reeds and matching them to the mouthpiece, beginners and some more advanced student are very impatient with reeds and sometimes should refer to source materials on reed work and sanding in order to lighten or change unworkable reeds. The B45 is my least favorite of all because it is a more open type of sound that is not in fashion anywhere and that includes France! That being said alot of players sound fine on this design, so don't believe everthing you hear until you find what works personally. The 5RV I find very sharp and has alot of airiness in the sound, the Woodwind K10M is also popular yet when I tried them I disliked the emission of tone and its tuning....the trick is to have a pro around for some advice and not to settle for something you find difficult to play on...Good Luuck!
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