 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: IHL
Date: 2002-04-16 06:49
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2002-04/uow-cay041102.php
I found it interesting.
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Author: Lisa
Date: 2002-04-16 12:30
I play clarinet and saxophone and my husband plays guitar. My 4-year old daughter has ALREADY classified the guitar as a "boy's instrument" - an opinion we're really trying to change. I'm thrilled when she says that she wants to play clarinet and saxophone "like Mommy," but I don't want her to reject the guitar for the reason she's given.
My husband and I are trying to plant the seed for drums!
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Author: E. Michael Blake
Date: 2002-04-16 16:10
I've observed this sort of gender bias myself, but I'm surprised that cello is seen as mainly a choice for girls; the size of the instrument and the depth of its tone would seem to me to be associated with masculinity, but the researchers' data seem to say otherwise. The polarities I saw in my youth seem to be about the same in my son's age-group: no boy will go anywhere near a flute, girls rarely play brass. (And yet, don't most of the professional jobs for flautists eventually go to males? Does a boy have to prove his manhood on baritone sax before he can double on flute?)
Side note to Lisa: good for you, hoping your daughter will play drums. Not only will this help balance your family ensemble, but it will be an asset to your neighborhood, because every garage band needs a drummer. I just hope you don't live in a small apartment in a 12-flat. You can only do so much practicing on electronic pads; sometimes you have to cut loose on the real thing.
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Author: Kat
Date: 2002-04-16 17:21
That sure was true when I was a kid. I started drums in 5th grade (1978) though, because I wanted to. However, our band director tended to "influence" people who didn't play the "correct" instruments. There were two girls in the percussion section. I was consistantly assigned to the orchestral bells parts because I had taken piano for 4 years and could read the notes. I only got to play snare and bass drum on one "song" each. There was also a girl in the baritone section. The baritones all used school instruments, and although there were better horns available, the director assigned her the most beat-up, dented thing. Both she and I switched to clarinet after that year. The other percussionist girl quit band altogether. Fortunately for me, the clarinet "clicked," and I became proficient in a short time. Indeed, I found the instrument through which I can speak. But it certainly wasn't because I'm female!
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2002-04-16 20:08
I must admit that when my granddaughter was "forced" by her band director to become a "con"cussionist, instead of clar [or even flute] player as I wished, I was Miffed, BUT, she has become VG, and I am happy to send her presemts of mallets etc. Having the cl repair business [in our small town] it seems that more than half are played by girls, some of whom have a modest interest it the horns mechanics!! I can even recall when it was "desireable" to date the feminine tpt & tmb players! New blanks to fill in and punctuation, Mark?? Don
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Author: Wayne Thompson
Date: 2002-04-16 20:25
Concerning girls and guitars, specifically. Did you notice the Associated Press article on women and guitars? It’s by Martha Irvine. I read it in today’s paper. There must be a way to find it. It exactly addresses your daughter’s concerns. There are guitar makers listed who are making women’s and girls model; there are currently famous women mentioned. It’s a cool article!!
Wayne Thompson
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2002-04-16 20:44
I am a guitarist as well as clarinetist. I love the guitar and have enjoyed favorable responses from other players. Most guys think it's a "kick" to play with me--especially since I have some really cool equipment. One of my sons plays guitar and the other plays drums. My 2 year old granddaughter has a set of drums and was recently given a piano. She also loves to pick up the wood flutes and Irish flutes and recorders in my music room. She's a bit intimidated by the clarinet at this time.
I just ignore the gender thing. I was also a drum major and was told "girls need not apply" by the band director (in 1964). I asked him if I could try out anyway and he allowed it. The director didn't even think twice and has even been heard to tell people it was the best year of his career because the band was "lively." Just needed a girl drum major!!!
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Author: Blake
Date: 2002-04-16 21:32
Interesting study - I had no idea Clarinet was considered a feminine instrument since my experience all through elementary/high/college was gender neutral unlike some of the other sections. I currently play in DC Different Drummer's which is Gay and Lesbian community band where many of my fellow musicians share horror stories about not being allowed to play this instrument or that but through their perserverance and tenacity, they still are playing them. I do confess that it was interesting my first rehearsal to see a trumpet section of 6 women and 2 men and precussion section of 3 and 3 and a trombone section of 3 women and 4 men and a tuba section of 2 and 2 and a flute section of 3 male to 1 female.... What does all this mean? that its sad we cant let kids play and try any instrument they want for fear of being called a "fag" or a "dyke". My parents didnt want me to be drum major of marching band because people might call me a fag (too late...) Kids get the "spark" based on any of number of reasons.. they hear a passage from Peter and the Wolf (like I did) or know a friend or relative that played the instrument and like them or see first hand how it makes them happy or they just think its cool or ..theyre made to play it. I had an interesting experience singing with the Washington Chamber Symphony this year.. they have 2 female clarinetists.. i remember thinking to myself "Oh.. thats odd..they've always had males" Of course I also thought "oh.. they sucked on the Klezmer passage in a Chanukah piece.. I can play that (and have) better!" without regard to their gender..
I guess I feel fortunate that when and where I took Clarinet, most of the military bands in the DC area had male clarinet players and it wasnt perceived as a female instrument and my parents would have made me play trumpet or something. I guess it is important to show people that kids of any gender or race or orientation can enjoy the clarinet.
I did have a funny exchange with a euphonium player... he said that clarinet players "scared him" because we play "too many notes" and he found it confusing at the thought of having to use all ten fingers instead of 3 or 4 LOL!
Happy clarineting to ALL
Blake Velde
Arlington, VA
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Author: diz
Date: 2002-04-16 23:43
This is, a very interesting article. I guess I'm a little stunned because when I went to school (I unfortunately went to an all boy school) you were labelled as "sissy" no matter what instrument you played - heaven forbid you should play violin or the like. I played clarinet and viola throughout high school and a nasty time of it as a result from the other students.
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Author: diz
Date: 2002-04-16 23:44
Mark - I'm using a PC - why do I get those forward slashes (whatever) when I use quote marks?
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Author: Gorodn (NZ)
Date: 2002-04-17 00:17
I was teased heaps at school (age 16, 38 years ago) by a certain individual, for playing flute and liking classical music.
2 years later I saw the guy who was mainly responsible, in a record shop, buying a recording of Bach flute sonatas!
I wish that I had known, at the time I was being teased, that it was pure jealousy.
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Author: David Pegel
Date: 2002-04-17 01:44
I find it hilarious that in the Middle TN area, you always have two or three male flautists in high school that make All-Atate each year.
One of the top chair trombones this year was a girl.
Here down south we have a good gender mix.
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Author: John Noecker
Date: 2002-04-17 02:26
I have an interesting time with the people in my high school. My main instruments are clarinet and euphonium, and I also play flute fairly well (I play them all well enough to make it in my band, but not well enough to be anywhere near the best. More like the worst on flute and clarinet. Best on euph, though!). So, of course, no one knows what the Euphonium is, and then I play two "girl instruments". I've been harrassed quite a bit because of it, and been called some things I don't think it would be appropriate to post. I don't really feel, though, that instruments have gender differentiations. Interestingly enough, my largest tormentor happens to be a young man on our Cheerleading Squad. Not, of course, that there's anything wrong with that, but if there's anyone who should know better than to give into such stereotypes, it would be a male cheerleader, I would think. Oh well, I don't let the stereotype bother me too much. Another interesting thing, I think, is that the other clarinets themselves have ridiculed me when I occasionally sit in on their sectionals (my band director allows this to make up for the fact that he has yet refused to let me play clarinet in band). The only thing I think is really sad, is that the band directors themselves use these stereotypes to get the instruments they need. For example, I started playing clarinet when a friend stopped and offered to lend me his. Why did he stop? Because the band director played upon the fact that he was the only male clarinet left (after using a similar technique to turn the other male clarinetist to percussion), and convinced him to play tuba. What a pity! Oh well.
BTW, Blake. From this Euphonium player, I think the Euphonium scares me more than the clarinet. I'd rather use all ten fingers and toes than have to turn six shades of purple from trying to hit that REALLY high note (that, when turned to treble, is written as the same as the Clarinet's C two octaves above the staff, a relatively easy not). Of course, I don't always change purple, sometimes I change red or pink, but Euphonium is just painful, for me at least. But, of course, I have the curse of my band teacher enjoying my vibrato (which I can't turn off on the higher notes), and so he doesn't want to lose me. Bah!
Well, that was another little rant from me. Not sure if I'm actually contributing or just typing to "read myself type" (for lack of a better common phrase). Well, maybe someone else will like to "read me type", too!
John
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Author: Joe O'Kelly
Date: 2002-04-17 03:53
In my school I am first chair clarinet and I'm male. Our first chair flutist is male (although he started on sax.) Our first chair chellist is male and our first chair trombonist is female.
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Author: IHL
Date: 2002-04-17 03:56
because of the clarinet's extremes in range (and sizes) it would be very hard for anyone to sweep it straight into 'feminine' or 'masculine' categories. Anyone who does is being very narrow-sighted. And the same goes for any other instrument.
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Author: Allen Cole
Date: 2002-04-17 06:28
I was depressed when handed a clarinet in the fifth grade because I felt it was a girl's instrument. (and of four clarinets in the band, I was the only male after the 'decision' period) However, my interest in music prevailed and today the clarinet is my preferred instrument. I was also the only one of the class of four to continue playing all the way through high school.
While this gender bias in instrument selection certainly exists to a point, it's still a minor issue and I seriously doubt that it has silenced any important musical voices. Overall, I find that beginning students and parents have stronger, less sensible and more dangerous biases than any of the band directors that I see in action. The bottom line is that people who are truly interested in music will make music. People who want the most chic instrument to carry around will make excuses.
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2002-04-17 14:35
I play bari sax in a very good local jazz "big" band (17 pieces), and among those players we have two fine female trumpet players and a superb female bass trombonist. One of our frequent substitute players is an excellent female tenor saxophonist. One of the community wind ensembles I play in has a male piccolo player, for example. What gender bias?
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Author: "Clara"net
Date: 2002-04-18 01:17
In my high school band and orchestra, there is a great mixture among the instruments. Our orchestra has only 3 females in the violin section (including me) and 5 males...We have 3 violas, 2 male and 2 female, 3 male and one female cello, and 1 female bass. Then in our wind ensemble there are 5 females on flute and 2 male; clarinet has 7 female and 6 male; our saxes (alto & tenor) have 3 female and 5 male, and our only bari sax is male; our oboe is male, which I think is mainly considered a girl instrument? Our brass section has a lot of females in it. There are only 5 male trumpets and 3 female trumpets; 3 female horns and one male; 4 male trombones and 2 female; 2 male baritones and one female; and 2 tubas, one male and one female. Long list, but I wanted you to see how varied our ensembles are. The guys that play the flute are looked upon as "totally awesome", and they really are fantastic, taking up the first 2 chairs of our ensemble. Flute is really the only instrument in our band that is considered "girly", but everyone is saying that no, these guys play the flute and they have proved that they can play it better than our females-but because of talent, not gender. All of our other instruments are basically "free for all". No one is looked down upon for their instrument choice. My band and orchestra is like a family--we encourage each other to shoot for our goals, and we really don't care what the rest of the school thinks because we have each other. But a lot of people outside of band admire us because we are not afraid to express ourselves and we have accomplished so much. I am so glad that I don't have to go through the pressure that I have been reading about on this board, and I hope all of you will get through this without feeling the pressure from others. There has been music longer than we can remember. It is the oldest form of communication and expression, and it should not be looked down upon because of gender. There once was a time when only males were accepted as music makers, and now they are often looked down upon as "gay" or "sissy". That is just wrong. I hope things start to change and more people can feel just as good about their instrument choice as students at my school.
-Clara
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Author: Julie
Date: 2002-04-18 03:16
A couple years ago I was watching the Begining Band at my school do their concert and there was (is) a guy who played clarinet. The girl next to me leaned over to ask me if I knew the guy. I did, so she asked if he was gay. All because he played clarinet.
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Author: Jacy
Date: 2002-04-18 20:14
My school's band actually has a male majority in the clarinet section (9-6) and has a close to even balance in the other sections except for flutes and low brass. The male flutists and clarinetists not seem to be discriminated against much; sure, they may be ribbed from time to time about their sexual orientations, but it probably has little to do with instrument choiceand more to do with the fact that the most immature of 16-year-olds tend to throw all this labelling nonsense around for "laughs".
As for band directors using gender bias, mine last year asked my friend to play bassoon and me to play contrabass...neither of which one would think of as "girly" instruments.
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Author: David Pegel
Date: 2002-04-18 21:38
What I don't get is why Eefer/Bb Clarinets are "girl's" instruments and Bass/Contra are "guy's" instruments.
How odd that I see more girls in my county playing bass and more guys playing soprano than what is "usual".
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Author: diz
Date: 2002-04-19 03:35
"Clara" wrote have 3 violas, 2 male and 2 female,
Does that mean that for two of the section, one holds the bow and the other does the fingering?? Kind of like a duo for one?
:-)
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Author: lala
Date: 2002-04-19 03:52
I went to a girls' school and don't have such gender association. Everyone played whatever instrument she liked, and everyone played the piano. The funny thing is, most of them were - or pretended to be - tomboys.
I will send my kid(s) to boys' or girls' school so that he/she does not have to worry about the gender issue or stupid teachers.
And I think that being a musician one should have enough guts to do what is right, instead of being affected by peers who are simply jealous or inferior.
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Author: Jean
Date: 2002-04-20 00:40
I just finished a paper for my Master's about all-girl bands during the mid part of the 20th century. For a good read about all girl swing bands and gender bias check out the book "Swing Shift" by Sherrie Tucker.
Jean
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Author: Arnold
Date: 2002-04-20 05:40
I am so gald to here all the male flutist are out there!!! Being the only male flutist in my school I have been through hell... heh. I still remember the day I joined symphonic band. Everyone laughed at me. Personally I think our band has many people who doesn't want to be there. Our band director, I have nothing against him, gives literaly free 'A' for playing in the band. So kids join band to get that 'A'. Its so bad when people like me who want to play really really well but can't because other people are screwing off. Anyways, I get made fun of all the time for playing the flute and more so since I play the football. But thanks to my band director who gave me many opportunities now I am in the top flute spot in my band and orchestra. Although, that didn't help at all. Other flutist doesn't mind me there anymore, but from other people I get so much crap. Hopefully there aren't this kind of discrimnation in college.
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Author: David Dow
Date: 2002-04-25 02:01
This stuff has little to do with music.
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Author: Gorodn (NZ)
Date: 2002-04-25 04:55
How we feel about ourselves has heaps to do with music. Do you really think that one's musical development is not affected when it occurs in an environment where one is made to feel a lower form of pond life simply for selecting a certain instrument.
These issues must account for the termination of instrumental playing for very many youngsters. They must also account for many children not even beginning to learn the instrument of their choice.
The same reason that most males cannot face the probably peer mocking if they are interested in and study any form of ballet.
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Author: Swing Band Queen Katai Katai
Date: 2002-04-28 02:54
All the best musicians at our school are girls. The best tuba players are three girls. The best trumpet player is a girl, and she is also the best french horn player I have ever heard. The best trombone in our grade is a girl(the best in the school is a boy) The clarinet section is all girls in our grade, as is the best clarinetist. I also know a good girl drummer, who play bass drum a lot and is superb on tubular bells and xylophone. At our school, all the best musicians are girls, except for the alto saxist, the bari saxist, the drum set player, the guitarist, and the trombone. I personally consider myself to be the best tenor saxist. But, really, the girls dominate the school(even the trombone section has 5 girls to 2 boys!)
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-04-28 10:17
Hmm.
Does this school provide a comfortable environment for boys to pusue artistic interests, or are they given a 'hard time' by teachers or fellow students for doing so? I have studied in, and worked in schools where this is the case.
If boys are made to feel bad for being musicians by other boys, would the girls even be aware of that?
I hope the school is a healthy one for all students, and that the current imbalance is just a temporary glitch. :-)
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The Clarinet Pages
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