 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Elizabeth
Date: 2002-04-13 19:32
Hi everyone!! I have a problem I was hoping the people on this board could help me with...
You see, I've only being playing clarinet for five years but I absolutely love it...there is nothing that I would rather do than play clarinet and I'm quite dedicated so I'm miles ahead of my other classmates. I practice whenever and wherever I can and I love every minute of it. So, of course, I've seriously considered becoming a professional musician. The thing is....that's not what my parents want. They want me to be a scientist. And it also seems like such an unstable and very, very difficult career to pursue! Competition, hectic practice and performance schedules etc.. But then, I just can't see myself in any other career! Music is what I love! Then again...I don't want to be focusing my life on an impossible dream! maybe I'm too young to be thinking about all this, I'm only in high school, but there's so much focus now on choosing a career and a college that I feel like I have to make a decision. I'm just feeling so very confused and hoping for some advice...
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Author: Fred
Date: 2002-04-13 21:38
I had the same situation about 25 yrs ago, Elizabeth; though in my case I probably wasn't quite as dedicated as you seem to be. In my case, my parents were right.
Only you and your mentors can assess whether you have the potential to make a living as a performer. I never would have made it. If you major in music but do not make it as a playing pro, your options are indeed more limited. Do you want to play, or do you want to be a teach for your paycheck?
On the other hand, nothing says you can't be a very fine clarinetist while working in another field. As you read this board, you hear from scientists, dentists, engineers, cpa's, lawyers, . . . and a scattering of music majors as well. During my university years, I took clarinet from the same teachers the music majors did, but got a masters in chemistry instead of music.
I am NOT suggesting you do what I did. I only mention these things because I wasn't thinking along these lines when I wanted to major in music and Dad balked. It IS good to consider these thoughts and keep your mind, and options, open for the future. I would not advise ditching all your remaining math and science in exchange for teacher's aide assignments in the band hall. Someday there may be a little Elizabeth that will need your help with Algebra and Chemistry.
And there's always the real possibility of a double major - not at all out of the question in your situation!
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Author: Kim L.
Date: 2002-04-13 21:53
Do what you want to do. Your parents have a dream for you, but it is by no means your dream. If you see yourself in Carnegie Hall, then that is what you should be pursuing. Your parents want you to be successful and they might not understand that you can be just as successful as a musician as you can in any other field. Remember what your dream is, and don't let anybody get in your way!
Kim L.
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Author: Clairgirl
Date: 2002-04-13 23:18
"Those who have given up on their dreams will encourage you to do so as well." - quote I read on someone's bulletin board.
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Author: crystal
Date: 2002-04-13 23:39
Go for it but remember to think realistic. There are always "ways " of doing things. find out your local sources first or what college your going to attend and start performing where ever you can.
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Author: William
Date: 2002-04-14 04:08
Fred's advice is "right on." I just wanted to add that while being a professional musician does not insure a lot of job security, I have a friend who has his PhD in Nuclear Engineering and cannot find a job in his professional field. Diversity of skills may insure the most promising future--and the innate ability to answer the "right" door of opportunity that knocks. Chance always favors the prepared mind. Good luck and Good Clarineting!!!!
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Author: Jim E.
Date: 2002-04-14 04:42
As I've said here before, most of the pro musicians I know actually make most of their living as teachers (of music) and supplement that with playing gigs. Even around here, near Atlantic City with its casinos, there are very musicians who make a living solely from playing. If teaching is something you can see yourself doing, perhaps that would help your parents accept music as a career.
You do need to be thinking seriously about this now as there are things you should be doing if you want to be accepted into college as a music major. (Take music theory, prepare audition pieces, sing (if you can) in a choir to build ear training, pick up some piano if you havent yet and so on.)
Good Luck!
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Author: Tracey
Date: 2002-04-14 07:23
Playing a string instrument also really helps to build intonation, if you don't really have a great voice, hehe! The intonation of any string player will be imperfect, and it is something to always be worked on. I think it builds like relative pitch pretty well, but if you want perfect pitch...well that's another story. But it can be learned, if you really wanted to
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Author: HAT
Date: 2002-04-14 14:10
You can take or leave what I have to say, but I play the clarinet for a living and have been for a dozen years.
If you are gifted academically, best to stay the course.
In the meantime, practice as much as you can and make sure you have the best teacher available in your area. Preferably someone who plays the clarinet professionally very well.
As far as playing advice, I would say play AT LEAST 30 minutes a day from Baermann 3 with a metronome (not fast, not too slow), learn the Stark arpeggio studies (slowly at first, and in 4 or 5 line chunks) and listen to every classical recording in every library in your area over and over and over. With scores if possible.
If you do the above for 2 or 3 years, you will likely be way ahead of most applying high school seniors.
When you apply to schools, pick a good assortment of schools that have everything in both fields that you will need. A great clarinet teacher who has done some major performing will make up for a lot at an otherwise mediocre music school (hopefully that school will be good for your other academics). If you go somewhere with a mediocre or bad teacher, you can get screwed up to the point where it's all over.
There's little glory in being a professional clarientist most of the time. In fact, having a great non-music job that pays great money will allow you to create gigs for yourself that are far beyond what you might be able to achieve on your own talent. It happens all the time.
Being a professional means taking every job offered to you, whether you really want to play it or not. And yes, there are many jobs in music that are the equivalent of 'making sausages.'
Now, if you win one of the glory jobs, you are all set, assuming that is the kind of playing you love so much that you want to do it 6 days a week 48 weeks a year.
Another thing you CAN do if you have your heart set on music is to learn at this time just enough sax and flute so that you could pick it up later easily. These two instruments might take you a LONG way in the professional game, assuming you would rather be a musician that do something else. Keyboard skills are also a great idea, as they will help you pass out of required courses in music school.
Good Luck,
David Hattner, NYC
www.northbranchrecords.com
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Author: diz
Date: 2002-04-15 02:31
The advice about playing sax and flute is so true. Most professional musicians nowadays (unless they're lucking enough to be in a professional orchestra) play for "shows" Broadway and the like - where ever they are in the world. If you can play flute and Bassoon or another wind instrument competently then you'll have a much better chance at getting the "pro gigs". Enjoy your music, it's a gift that only a few are blessed with.
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Author: David Pegel
Date: 2002-04-15 03:06
Glad you mentioned that, diz. The "doubler's pro" is my personal object of persuasion. (I just need to practice to meet competency as a pro, which will be a while.)
I am lucky enough to have parents that not only want me to pursue my dream in music, but also have been giving me every opportunity I can muster to further this dream. I only wish other people were so lucky.
I am really sorry to hear that your parents don't want you to further your own dream. I would take many of these ideas that others have posted to heart, however. It's very good advice. (Of course it is; this is Sneezy!!!!)
David Pegel
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Author: jez
Date: 2002-04-15 12:19
Elizabeth,
While the desire to go straight into music is strong, if you've got the opportunity to do something else AS WELL don't think that will, necessarily stop you achieving your potential. It's got to be good to have '2 strings to your bow'
I play 2nd. clar. in an orchestra in which both the current principal and his predecessor studied science subjects before going into music and I know of several others who have done the same (Tony Pay for one)
I wish I'd had the choice, but was never academically gifted!
We could do with more people who could provide more scientific thought into instruments & playing techniques.
Best wishes
jez
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Author: Kim
Date: 2002-04-15 16:09
Here's a little anonymous quote that I clipped that sums up my perspective.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, and comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worse, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat."
I always thought that the worst thing in life (far worse than failure) would be not pursuing my dreams and spending my life wondering 'what if'. I've managed to make a living as a professional musician, though I certainly haven't achieved the degree of success that I'd planned on achieving when I was your age, but I'm glad that I will never be in the company of those afraid to try. Keep in mind that this road isn't for the faint of heart.
Good luck with whatever you decide.
Kim
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Author: Julia
Date: 2002-04-15 16:12
Respect your parents and try to see their point of view. Parents are usually right in this type of situation. It doesn't mean you have to give up music; you don't. Just listen to your parents...they've been around a bit longer.
<I can;t believe I just wrote that...if my mom saw it she would be in shock...lol, seriously though--its true>
Good luck,
Julia
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2002-04-15 17:08
Kim: One of my favorites, too. I believe you can attribute it to Theodore Roosevelt.
Regards,
John
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Author: Betsy
Date: 2002-04-15 17:27
Ach! I have such a problem with "Just listen to your parents...they've been around longer." Yes, they've lived on this world for more years, but are they musicians? What do they know about the musical circles?
True the life of a musician is not easy. Many that I know have several jobs -teaching, conducting, composing, etc. to make ends meet. But every course in life has its pitfalls. The office worker doesn't get to go out on a beautiful day, while on a rainy day the landscaper would love to have some time inside.
The BIG decision is, do you love your job enough to put up with the downfalls of whatever career you choose.
You're young and you've got time to make the decision. Practice hard and study until you have to make a career move. But when you do make that decision, don't listen to another person even if it is your parents, go at it whole heartedly.
(True, diversification is a good idea but the coursework required for music majors is opposite of most other majors. Your first years are spent mainly taking music courses and ensembles. Then general studies are the last few and you still have to get ready for a junoir and senior recital. There is little chance to explore other majors unless you want to be a the eight year plan!)
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Author: Julia
Date: 2002-04-15 17:53
hey! Mark...I wrote more than that in the message....where did the rest of it go?
That's really strange.....what happened?
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-04-15 17:57
Betsy wrote:
>
> But when
> you do make that decision, don't listen to another person even
> if it is your parents, go at it whole heartedly.
That's right. Don't listen to advice. Just jump right in blindly.
And hope that someone offers you a helping hand to climb out of the pit ...
I hope Betsy really means to listen to advice given, advice from not only from parents but from people in that particular path you've chosen, and then make an educated decision. Perhaps after listening to people you'll find out that you _don't_ have the "fire in your belly" enough to put up with the many rejections you're going to have in the music business. The audition circuit is a grind ... ask anyone who's been through it. Maybe you _do_ have the grit and determination to do it. But to say "Don't listen to advice. Just jump right in blindly." is a pretty stupid trick ...
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Author: Betsy
Date: 2002-04-15 21:04
If she should choose to become a musician, in the end it is her choice. I was trying to help her stand her course and stick with whatever she chooses, even if she goes against parents wishes. Parents have the darndest way of squelching dreams without realizing it.
Mark, after a comment like that, I'd prefer not to talk with you. And yes, BTW, I've worked as a pro and decided I like to have a life.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-04-15 21:31
Every working pro I know has counseled kids to have options, that it's a hard life, and not to jump blindly.
You're the first I've ever encountered that said "jump in blind".
And after all your wise counseling, you come up with "BTW, I've worked as a pro and decided I like to have a life."
Maybe you <b>should</b> have listened.
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Author: Suzanne
Date: 2002-04-15 21:35
You are lucky enough to have found something that is your passion. How many people have that? If you really have the talent, then you should go for it. The worst thing that can happen is you don't make it; then you will find something else to do. But think about the best thing that can happen! Go for it, life is too short to settle; but have a backup plan. (Like a double major, for example.)
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Author: Betsy
Date: 2002-04-15 22:01
I gave sound advice. I don't know what's eating you Mark- but you really have a way of not reading a post. And way to go Suzanne, she has the right spirit in mind!
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-04-15 22:16
Betsy,
Any time someone tells someone to "ignore advice" I will take them to task. We have people who are real working pros here on the board, who "have a life", and I'll counsel every person I see to talk to them before making a choice. I think your "advice" is unsound in the extreme. I get letters from more people than you can imagine, and many of them are just "following their heart", but are completely unprepared for undergrad work at any decent college or university music program - and they think they're going to be performance majors!
It's an unfortunate fact of life that many of these same colleges and universities take these poor, unsuspecting students in and effectively lie to them.
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Author: Larry Liberson
Date: 2002-04-15 22:22
Betsy says "BTW, I've worked as a pro and decided I like to have a life."
Well....first, I'm pretty sure that there are several opinions as to what it is to work "as a pro." Chances are, Betsy, that ours differ.
That being said, after being in this business (for those who think it to be just that) full-time for the better part of 26 years now (that means after all the stuff I did -- for $$$ -- while still learning what the hell it was all about...I believe they call that being a student or something...), I would like to think that I "have a life." And Betsy, believe it or not, it's a pretty damn good one.
My "regular" job has blessed me with the opportunity to play somewhere in the neighborhood of an average of four concerts a week (do the math, OK?).
Is it demanding? Hell, yes. Along with all those performances goes the requisite rehearsals, practicing, reedwork, etc. (and I won't even address the inherent stress...). How does that differ from my good friend (and doctor), the internist, who trains residents, sees patients, must keep up on new procedures and equipment, go to the meetings, etc.? Or anything/anybody else, for that matter. If you're going to do it well, you better be dedicated -- and that necessary dedication can't be half-assed, so to speak.
I'll be hitting the half-century mark in less than a couple months (for those who care to send extravagant gifts and/or cash presents, I'll be more than glad to provide an address) and, as I approach this next chapter of my 'life,' I can't think of anything I'd rather be doing. Funny thing is that when I have that occasional night off (or whatever), I'm provided with more opportunities than I can accept to play chamber music and the like. In the last two months, for example, I've played a solo (with a local wind symphony), two recitals (with a third coming up next month), four chamber music concerts (two of them far out of state) and tomorrow, of all things, I'll be going out to a suburban high school to do a little workshop for the clarinet students. Of course, I also do a bit of private teaching.
Now, I don't do all these "extra-curricular" things for the money. Frankly, I make a pretty decent living already. I do them because I want -- and because I still love -- to make music with the clarinet, by myself and with my colleagues -- even though it's never an easy row to hoe.
And yet I have still found the time to have that so-called life: I ski, bike and skate; I work out daily; I read and do crossword puzzles; I love to travel (admittedly, the clarinet often accompanies me) and go to films; I like to cook-- and eat!
Living with the clarinet (or anything you have dedicated yourself to accomplishing) doesn't mean it stays in your mouth without pause, you know?
Like myself, I have friends and colleagues who have similar lifestyles -- yet most of us have still been able to find the time to get married, have kids, go to school events, etc....just like 'normal' people! Maybe you just did it wrong?
I can retire in 2007 -- just seven years from this June, but nothing could be further from my mind.
What I do is simply a part -- albeit, a big part -- of a great life.
And what kind of a life would it be without it?
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Author: Larry Liberson
Date: 2002-04-15 22:30
Mark said: "It's an unfortunate fact of life that many of these same colleges and universities take these poor, unsuspecting students in and effectively lie to them."
How true...and how sad.
If you really want to take it another step further, there are way too many supposed 'music schools' in this country, staffed by faculty supposedly 'teaching' what they have had no experience in doing in the real world, yet still passing it off as the gospel.
And that is really sad...not to mention fraudulent.
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2002-04-15 22:41
Elizabeth -
You've gotten excellent advice from three professional players - HAT, diz and jez - about what it's like to be a professional player.
If you can't be happy doing anything else, then music is the way to go. Your parents have your best interests at heart, but if music is your true calling, they will understand. Keep at it, and you will get your way. In fact, it will show you the kind of determination you need to make it as a performer.
If you have to, go to a college that has both an academic school and a conservatory, for example, Oberlin (which is where I went, in the college).
You need to leave yourself some wiggle room. I've told this story several times. My college freshman roomate was absolutely sure he was going to do get a 5-year physics and engineering degree from Oberlin and Case Western Reserve. Instead, he graduated with a major in medieval German literature. Jack Brymer hardly went to music school at all. He was a calisthenics instructor in the British Army and played in jazz bands, where people heard him and started offering him better and better jobs.
Going to a conservatory helps, but the musicians who make it as performers - the big talents - do it regardless of what kind of school they went to. In fact, it's my opinion that the broader an education you get, the better musician can be. All the great musicians I've met have an incredible breadth of knowledge. They put their whole lives into their music making.
Chin up. Make your music, participate on this board, and keep at it.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: diz
Date: 2002-04-15 23:17
Never take risks in life, ever - always follow the safe path - never jump in blindly - you might just learn some lessons.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-04-15 23:27
> Never take risks in life, ever - always follow the safe
> path - never jump in blindly - you might just learn some
> lessons.
Or, perhaps, weigh your risks, know when and why when you're off the beaten path, and keep your eyes and wits about you.
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Author: HAT
Date: 2002-04-15 23:52
Mark said: "It's an unfortunate fact of life that many of these same colleges and universities take these poor, unsuspecting students in and effectively lie to them."
How true...and how sad.
If you really want to take it another step further, there are way too many supposed 'music schools' in this country, staffed by faculty supposedly 'teaching' what they have had no experience in doing in the real world, yet still passing it off as the gospel.
And that is really sad...not to mention fraudulent.<<<<<<<<
I have said the above many times in various ways. It is why I take the controversial position that music performance majors should not be required to play in concert band. Groups like that should be reserved for non-majors and any majors who really want to participate.
Schools that accept enough clarinet performance majors to staff an entire symphonic band in addition to its orchestras and wind ensembles is probably guilty of making a lot of false promises as well.
And it is also why I generally recommend studying with someone who performs. People who perform a lot over time learn certain things from that experience that are hard for the life long academe to intuit.
Performance Pedigogy has become a science unto itself. For centuries, music performance was a craft passed from master artisan to protoge. Now people study how to be a guru instead of how to master the art itself.
David Hattner, NYC
www.northbranchrecords.com
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Author: Kat
Date: 2002-04-16 02:10
All seriousness aside, I have one young student (she's 10 now) who began studying with other teachers at age 7. Yes, 7. I began teaching her about a year and a half ago, and in her first lesson I asked her why she wanted to play the clarinet. She answered, "Because I want to be a professional musician." This at the age of almost-9! At that point, I said, "We can work with that." When I told my husband what she had said, he said, "Did you tell her, 'DON'T DO IT!!!!!'?"
Seriousness back in place now... I thought throughout high school that I wanted nothing more than to be the principal clarinetist in some huge, famous orchestra. I held that dream through my undergraduate performance degree, but during my work on my performance Master's, I realized I didn't want to have to play everything the way the "man-with-the-stick" wanted it done. I wanted more creative input into the music I was making. Hat is right when he says,
"Being a professional means taking every job offered to you, whether you really want to play it or not. And yes, there are many jobs in music that are the equivalent of 'making sausages.'"
I realized I didn't want to play that stuff. I quit playing for 3 years while working on a Master's in Musicology. I quit that when I realized that in order to get a TEACHING job I'd have had to publish my tush off. My advisor at the time suggested a music ed degree, but I said, "I want to teach people MUSIC, not how to teach music." So, after all that, I found my way into an international folk music ensemble, playing on an amateur level, and after a few years of that I was asked to play with the local professional international dance troupe's folk orchestra. This is music I LOVE. Also, I have a say in how it's done and what gets done.
My advice to Elizabeth is to remember that your professional clarinet career will include music you hate. You will be forced to play things you can't stand, but then you will also get to be part of things you woulnd't want to miss for a million dollars. You have to decide what price you are willing to pay to achieve your goals, whatever they may be.
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Author: David Pegel
Date: 2002-04-16 02:21
Elizabeth:
I would do what Mark says now and analyze what all has been said. The standard debates have come and gone through this thread, and there is much you can read in between the lines.
And not all of this looks pleasant.
I would suggest reading EVERY post that has been offered and then drawing your conclusion from every single one of those sources. There are many replies to other posts that ar just begging for your opinion now. Who knows? You may decide to discard most advice like Betsy suggested, or you may decide to give it up. This is very complex.
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Author: David Pegel
Date: 2002-04-16 02:22
Also, Betsy, if you are still reading this thread:
I am sure Mark did not intend any hard feelings in his post. He has a very direct manner that does come in handy most of the time. "Jumping in blindly" was the first impression that most people probably got, but I'm sure you meant it in a very different matter.
But perhaps now there's nothing I can do but feed the fire...
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Author: Allen Cole
Date: 2002-04-16 05:29
I think that we've seen some outstanding advice in this thread. Let me address the matter of Elizabeth's parental objections.
Elizabeth, your parents may or may not know much about music or the clarinet, but I think that most have a good idea of what it takes to acheive excellence.
I advise you to practice your instrument wholeheartedly, but keep your options open. It's still the world's greatest hobby. If you develop your abilities enough to have a bright future as a professional, you will probably have distinguished yourself substantially before you ever graduate high school. Your parents will see and respect this. I think that they will make much of their judgement based on your apparent dedication. If this excites you and you devote as much time to it as you would to your favorite hobby, I think you may have something. If it seems like an academic chore, you might not love it enough--and believe me, you HAVE to be addicted to this.
Favorite advice IMHO:
1 - Keyboards. Some basic keyboard competency would provide you serious advantages as a music undergrad.
2 - Doubling sax, flute, etc. I have worked almost entire as a sax player/doubler since college, but have gotten some really prime clarinet jobs because I had all bases covered.
3 - Understand that it's seldom a bed of roses, artistically speaking. At best, I probably only like about 30% of what I play for $$$. Even so, it's not that much of a grind playing even the worst music when you're playing with good musicians.
My own 2 cents:
1 - There's nothing wrong with majoring in music. Just make sure that you take some substantial (and transferrable) academic subjects. If things don't work out with music, you can always go for a certificate of some kind later on.
2 - Keep an open mind. You are going to encounter many mentors who disagree on much. You are going to be asked to play music that you can't stand. Make the best of every situation that comes your way. Your attitude towards what you're doing is going--and the hand that feeds you--is tremendously important in this very competetive field.
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2002-04-16 16:50
Not only is there nothing wrong with majoring in music, there are some important things *right* about it.
A music *major* means that you've gone beyond music "appreciation." There's no such thing as music theory appreciation. You learn what's in the book by hard study. The same goes, in spades, for mastering an instrument. You go in the practice room and grind your way through Baermann III, forging your own tools.
A music major gives you something many students avoid - hard work and mastery of a complex skill that takes years to learn. The payback lasts the rest of your life - doing something well that gives continuous joy.
Believe it or not, the second most frequent college major hired by IBM (after computers) is music, for exactly the reasons I just gave - music majors know how to work and keep at it. My wife, who has a Ph.D. in musicology and is now a bank vice president, says music is a hard way to earn a living, but a GREAT major.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: HAT
Date: 2002-04-16 17:27
http://www.clevescene.com/issues/2002-04-11/feature.html/1/index.html
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Author: Suzanne
Date: 2002-04-16 18:32
Play for some people who actually are working as musicians, who are honest, and see what they say. Do you have the talent? If you do, then consider what you might have to give up to make it. Maybe you will have to live like a pauper for several years, work an uninspiring day job, have less time for personal relationships, including kids (at least, most women professionals I know don't have kids), etc. Then consider that even if you give all those things up, maybe you still won't make it. If it is still worth the risk, then do it. If you really love it enough, it will be. That's how I see it.
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2002-04-16 20:40
And to add even more depression to the article mentioned above: The musicians are string players, and we know that orchestras carry a heck of a lot more string players than, say, clarinettists. I remember during my one year in the musicians union, watching the AFM magazine every month for the audition notices for clarinettists --- there couldn't have been more than a half-dozen openings, TOTAL, in the entire U.S. that year. Imagine the competition for those slots! Consider the effects (this was discussed in a thread a while ago) of orchestras having someone like Stanley Drucker or the late Anthony Gigliotti holding a principal clarinetist seat for 40 or 50 YEARS! How much opportunity is available in orchestras for new players? Something to think about.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-04-16 20:46
Yet someone <b>will</b> win those positions. It's like the lottery - if you play your chances are slim to none. If you don't buy a ticket your chances are zero.
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Author: diz
Date: 2002-04-17 01:24
My BIG regret as a professional musican was to have "not bothered" to study the piano to a level where I can accompany someone. I have slogged hard, since leaving school and being a professional violist/clarinetist to "teach myself the piano" - through hard labour I can now "bollox" my way through rather akward Sullivan transcriptions for my musical society. If I'd studied piano at the same time as clarinet and viola with the same results - I would be a very happy man. Must get back to my piano practice.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-04-17 03:09
I'll second diz's comments about piano. Not only are you going to have to take piano as part of your studies in college unless you test out, the piano (or other keyboard instruments) is an excellent visual aid to chord progessions, inversions, and formation. Forming a Db +5dim7 chord on a piano in the 2nd inversion isn't very hard - and then you can hear what it sounds like.
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Author: Julie
Date: 2002-04-17 03:30
myparents are saying the same thing... at the moment, i'm ignoring them and just continuing to repeat my ideas to them until they give up
good luck
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Author: Julie
Date: 2002-04-17 03:30
myparents are saying the same thing... at the moment, i'm ignoring them and just continuing to repeat my ideas to them until they give up
good luck
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Author: Julie
Date: 2002-04-17 03:32
sorry things keep getting posted more than once, my internet is a bit messed up
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Author: Elizabeth
Date: 2002-04-17 11:24
Hi everyone! and thanks SO much for all the wonderful advice. Some of it is encouraging, and some of it very discouraging, but all of it helpful. Now if only I could get it all sorted out...But believe me, I'm not going to be "jumping in blindly"--I have considered my options seriously over and over, and am still nowhere near to jumping anywhere anyhow. I do, however, think my best option would be to attend a college such as Oberlin, with both an academic school and a conservatory. And now I have to attempt to learn to play piano...
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Author: Elizabeth
Date: 2002-04-17 11:25
Uh...okay now I'm confused. I'm not Julie, and yet Julie's address is the same as mine...
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-04-17 13:32
In this case it means if you're not Julie then Julie lives somewhere not too far from you.
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Author: DougR
Date: 2002-04-17 17:22
Hi Elizabeth:
this might seem like an odd coda to everything that's been said, but I just want to say, whatever you do, don't neglect Plan B!! I'm a musician/actor in the heart of NYC, and my principal economic well being comes from word processing at a highfalutin' investment banking firm. In the WP center, I'm surrounded by actors, singers, musicians, writers, filmmakers, etc. etc., all of us hacking away at computers to finance our art. So I guess my plea is, don't neglect other fields you love, OR other marketable skills, on your road to music. You never know when you'll need to generate stable, ready cash between gigs. And, just an observation--most NYC musicians I know do lots and lots of teaching: schools, private, public-school Board of Ed clinics, etc.--unless/until the major Broadway/symphonic gig comes up.
Best wishes & luck to you!!
Doug
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-04-17 17:28
DougR wrote:
>
> You
> never know when you'll need to generate stable, ready cash
> between gigs. And, just an observation--most NYC musicians I
> know do lots and lots of teaching: schools, private,
> public-school Board of Ed clinics, etc.--unless/until the major
> Broadway/symphonic gig comes up.
Even then ... my friend John Cipolla played Broadway (Cats) and the Rockefeller Center gigs for years and years - then decided to go get his DMA and teach ;^)
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Author: Meri
Date: 2002-04-17 18:05
I echo the advice of those who say you should do what you love, and go against your parents. You are better off wearing them down until they give up. I held on to my convinctions that I really was meant to do music to my parents, I kept telling them that no matter what they say about me doing music, I will never give it up. It seems that they have just about given up, 6 years later. I think they've (finally) figured out that the more they try to get me to not do music, the more strength it gives me to resist them. Also, during that time, I surrounded myself with people who support my musical passion. Though your parents will probably not admit it, they envy your talent, passion, and determination.
I tried to study what I wasn't really passionate about. (Philosophy and Cognitive Science). I still wish I had gone into music (music therapy), which I plan to either next year or the following. I am also teaching a few beginners, under the guidance of my teacher.
Ask your parents whether it is more important that you be happy, achieving your goals and dreams, or you to be extremely unhappy and not achieve them.
Music can be a good living, if you know how to market yourself. My teacher told me that when he was playing in the Toronto production of Phantom of the Opera, he was making $100 000+ (CDN) a year. Even private teaching can be a pretty comfortable living: how many people can make 30-45K per year working only part-time?
Good luck!
Meri
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-04-17 18:22
Just remember that you'll really be on your own with no support from your parents should you really displease them.
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Author: julia
Date: 2002-04-18 02:24
Why can;t you just respect your parents? That doesn't mean to give up your instrument and your love for music. It just means listening to them, considering and trying to understand their views, weighing it against your own, talking over with your parents, and then making a decision. From your original post it didn't sound as if your parents were completely unreasonable, but just looking out for an ambitious daughter.
Take it easy, consider your options, and don;t just try to "wear down" and go against your parents. That will do nothing, other than make stress which you don;t need!!
Good luck, and well...that's it!
Good clarineting! (as someone else on this BB always says )
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Author: Bottechian Synchronicity
Date: 2002-04-18 12:40
Ignore the advice of your parents; that's a good one.
It's a short step from that to a trailer in the woods with 200 cats.
Seriously, do you really want to slog through AL Webber 6 nights a week and twice on Saturday? That's what's out there.
When was the last time a solo performance of clarinet Werks was offered by your local symphony or community orchestra?
How many paying orchestras will be left in the next 10 years?
Any playing professional will point out to you that there are maybe two clarinet players in any given pit, on any given night.
Go ahead, ask your favorite teacher about the number of gigs they hold down, just to pay the bills. G'head..
Want to work in music? Better learn the Violin.
I suppose there is room for another Blue-Eyed, buxom blond up front... that does seem to move CDs.
Ever notice how many Vanessa-Mae, Dianna Kraal or Midori CDs sell over the holidays? Being good is NOT enough. It takes being GREAT and accessible... that means continuous play of simple charts that are one degree of separation from an elevator. And relentless self-promotion AND dumb luck AND endless practice.
Music should be something that you ride, like a river. It cannot provide you a destination... if you learn to read it, perhaps it will feed you and take you places you have never seen.
Ignore those you pass on the Banks at your peril, you will need there help to haul your boat back upstream.
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Author: DougR
Date: 2002-04-18 13:28
I enjoyed Mr. Synchronicity's post a lot. The immediate choices Elizabeth confronts (that all of us confront, in a way) are urgently urgently important, in the sense of standing up for one's heart's desire...but Life has a way of putting you where it wants you, and THEN, it seems to me, what's important is one's resilience & ability to make lemonade with whatever lemons are available. Mr. Cipolla (Mark's example) is certainly a good example: someone I'd point to as a role model in terms of clarinet success in THIS town, anyway (NYC). there's nothing wrong with teaching--in fact I count good teaching as one of the great spiritual gifts life has to offer--but looking up at "success" from beginning stages, teaching may look a little limp as a life goal. But, if steady symphony jobs seem so attractive, how come symphony players' job satisfaction ratings are down there in the basement along with assembly-line workers? Maybe the answer is to work like hell to get there, so that you can THEN move on to what really matters. Whatever you decide THAT is (and I'm still working that one out!)...
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Author: William Hughes
Date: 2002-04-18 13:47
From a recent thread:
"..for a long time it seemed to me that life was about to begin-real life. But there was always some obstacle in the way, something to be gotten through first, some unfinished business, time still to be served, a debt to be paid. At last it dawned on me that these obstacles were my life. This perpective has helped me to see there is no way to happiness. Happiness is the way. So treasure every moment you have and remember that time waits for no one. Happiness is a journey, not a destination..."
-John Philip Sousa
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Author: Elizabeth
Date: 2002-04-18 21:57
It seems there are many cons to becoming a professional...
But, and this may sound stupid, it just seems to me that after so much hard work and music being such a passion of mine, well wouldn't it be kind of a waste NOT to become a professional?
If I don't land a job that at least has something to do with music, I'll probably end up never being able to play clarinet again, or at least not nearly as much as I would want to. I'd never get a chance to at least try to accomplish my dream, even though it may be impossible to do so. But, with a little encouragement, my parents most likely will support whatever I decide. After all, they are paying a whole heck of a lot of money for me to go to Interlochen over the summer.
Being a musician=doing what you love to do at least to some extent, and getting payed for it, does it not? Controversial statement, I know, but even with all I've read it still seems that way to me.
Maybe I'm just destined to be a starving musician...playing on street corners in New York, hoping someone will drop a coin in my open clarinet case...
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Author: DougR
Date: 2002-04-19 01:50
Elizabeth--I once heard someone talk about "doing the best I can to find my path with the light I have to see by," and that's kind of all any of us is doing. Good for you! Take a principled stand, move forward, reassess. Take a principled stand, move forward, reassess. Take a .... etc. etc. etc. Oh, and most important, don't forget to have a LIFE!!!
And thanks, Mr. Hughes, for the Sousa quote. I'm going to post it somewhere where I'll see it often.
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The Clarinet Pages
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