 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Rina
Date: 2002-04-09 09:43
Let me preface my query by saying that I have been through the search engine and got some information, but I need more (especially if I'm going to write 9000 words on the subject)...
Question: Does anybody have proof (acoustical) of how structural changes to the clarinet change the intonation? i.e. if you fraise a tone hole this happens, if you change the bore size, that happens, if you change the barrel or the bell blah blah blah...
There is a lot of anecdotal evidence, and I'm interested in writing a paper that puts together all the information, but I would like it to have that elusive "proof" from acoustical studies. (I suspect I'm going to have to be the one who does the research) If anyone has done some work and would like to share, please let me know.
with thanks to all of you engineers and mathemeticians who I know will jump in feet first to reply :-)
Rina
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-04-09 11:53
Arthur H. Benade, "Fundamentals of Musical Acoustics" is the seminal work on woodwind sound productions/acoustics.
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2002-04-09 13:33
Or try the Hyperphysics web site at:
<a href="http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/hframe.html">http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/hframe.html</a>
You will have to wade through the links to get specific information on music and sound production.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2002-04-09 13:50
Arthur Benade also wrote a brief article in February 1987 (7 months before he died) entitled "On the Tuning of Clarinets". It was published in the Nov/Dec 1990 issue of "The Clarinet" magazine (Vol. 18 No. 1).
I would also check the list of American Doctoral Dissertations pertaining to the clarinet that were in "The Clarinet" magazine (Vol.17 No.1 and Vol.17 No.2) There are a few titles that pertain to the information you are seeking.
My third suggestion (the most obvious one) is to personally contact some of the most experienced clarinet technicians/builders/repairman (eg: Chadash, Fobes, Ridenour) and pose some of your questions to them. If you are successful, and would eventually like to post their responses, I'm certain that many of us would be quite interested...GBK
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2002-04-09 14:21
Yes to the above refs. I'd add, read in Brymer and Rendall for their feelings re: the effects of bore, fraizing etc variations on intonation and pitch. To me, its very complex. Don
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Author: Wes
Date: 2002-04-09 18:22
The basic acoustics text is Helmholtz's "On the Sensations of Tone". This marvelous book from this super genius is interesting by itself and was available as a Dover edition. It does not, however, address the specific clarinet items you refer to.
Clark Fobes wrote some great articles on the practical aspects of clarinet and bass clarinet tuning in the ICA publications which are very well done. He speaks from practical and successful experience.
Most expert tuners do not write articles about their work.
The manufacturers of clarinets have some experts on hand such as Mr. Kloc of Buffet.
From discussions with Mr. Benade and Mr. Alex Murray(flutist), I've found them to be passionate experts deeply involved in these topics. Mr. Benade is no longer living and Mr. Murray is mostly concerned about flutes.
The application of mathematics and physics to these subjects is theoretical and not so much used in a practical sense. The applicable Bessel function acoustic equations are too complex to be useful and the boundary conditions are somewhat undefined. To write some kind of acoustic equation that describes the practical effects of fraising a tone hole would be beyond anyone.
Undercutting a tone hole on a clarinet or an oboe generally has most effect in raising the pitch of that hole in the fundamental register with lesser effect on upper registers. Enlarging the hole raises pitch of that hole in all registers.
Good luck!!
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-04-09 22:14
Wes wrote:
> The application of mathematics and physics to these subjects is
> theoretical and not so much used in a practical sense.
Not quite true, as evidenced by the NX clarinet.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2002-04-10 20:27
Yes, I talked to George Jamison about the NX clarinet before he died. I would be interested in hearing more about it. I've not heard of any plans to manufacture it. He, of course, did a lot of the physical work on instruments for Dr. Benade. What I meant and perhaps was not really clear about(and may still not be) is that it is difficult to write equations that describe how to design the clarinet in detail. The tuner person seems to have the last say.
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Author: Forest Aten
Date: 2002-04-10 23:53
Wes,
Stephen Fox, one of the Sneezy sponsors <www.sfoxclarinets.com>, is building clarinets using the NX design. Fox has some information on his web site.
F. Aten
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-04-11 04:48
Wes,
I've worked on Navier-Stokes equations for fluid flow. The Bessel functions are candy ;^)
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2002-04-11 14:10
Mark,
I think solving the Bessel EQUATIONS is a bit more challenging than using Bessel FUNCTIONS, although the real challenge is accurately defining the boundary conditions --- a clarinet tube without toneholes is easy to define, but defining the boundary conditions created by the tonehole lattice is the nightmare that really hasn't been solved yet (not for lack of available science, but for lack of funding, I'm sure! --- there's little commercial or social incentive to advance the physics of music, unlike such fields of endeavor as defense or DNA research). But maybe I'm all confused....wouldn't be the first time.
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Author: David Dow symphony NB
Date: 2002-04-24 14:25
Simply stated the clarinet is a cylindrical pipe which jumps 12ths. from an acoustical standpoint the fraising of tone holes raises pitch and brightens sound. too large a hole causes diffuseness of sound, too small a tone hole cuases smallness and lowers pitch. A clarinet with an intune chalumeau will consequently be flattish in the upper register(Rendall"Clarinet"). The german instrument has more venting to facilitate raising pitch but mechanically uses smaller holes to achieve this. Yes the proof is out there...and yes there is alot of math behind the acoustics of the clarinet and also some theoretical stuff...thats for others and good luck.
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