 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: S.W. Franklin
Date: 1999-07-03 19:25
I have read with interest the various etude methods and books that have been used for learning to play the clarinet. I have never seen the method my instructor used. I have recently found Parts II and III of the Lazarus Clarinet School, revised, compiled and enlarged by Paul De Ville (circa 1940's) I used when learning to play the clarinet. I was unable, so far, to find Part I so I ordered a new Part I and found that this new Part I was revised by Simeon Bellison. I am wondering if this method (Lazarus) still used and, if so, to what extent. How does Lazarus comnpare with the many different systems I have seen posted on the Bulletin Board? Thanks in advance.
Wes Franklin
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Author: Ray Swing
Date: 1999-07-04 01:42
When I first studied the Clarinet in the 40's, my Band Director had me go thru Lazarus Part I, then switched me to the Klose for Part II. I have no idea why he did this, but since he was a very accomplished violinist, I assumed he knew best.
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Author: Tim2
Date: 1999-07-04 02:55
I have part II of the Lazarus Method. I got it used from a friend. I use it still bacause it has the 30 Cavallini Caprices in it. All the markings are still there from the teacher and the student previous, along with mine now. The 20 studies (Mazas) prior to the caprices are also very good.
For a clarinetist who is in high school and wants to excel, I think this is a fine book for helping the mucician grow. I think the Klose gets a bit boring with some of the studies in part II. I do like the duets, however.
I'd be interested in knowing what makes up part III of the Lazarus.
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Author: S.W. Franklin
Date: 1999-07-04 16:47
Part III of Lazarus (circa 1940's) includes the following:
3 Grand Artistic Duets
25 Grand Studies for Advanced Pupils
15 Grand Melodious Studies
3 Grand Concert Duets
5 Solos by H. Lararus
Various Concert Solos
Tim2, if you need or want more details about any of the above, please let me know.
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Author: Netty
Date: 1999-07-04 23:51
Do they still sell these books? if so, where would I find one?
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Author: S.W. Franklin
Date: 1999-07-05 15:36
Netty, the Lazarus Parts II and III that I have are from 1941 and are the books I used when I was learning to play the clarinet. Thet are in excellent condition and am using them now. I am still looking for my Part I along with some other sheet music and orchestra arrangements from that same period in a storage locker the size of a large automobile garage, containing my parents (and my things when I was young)things. I hope to find it one of these days. I do not knoow of a source to buy these editions of Lazarus. I did order a new Part I revised by Simeon Bellison (ISBN 0-8258-0206-7). I hope this answers your question.
Wes Franklin
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Author: Tim2
Date: 1999-07-05 18:17
The book III - duets are probably on a big scale?
Everything in the book is probably on a big scale, lengthy. That's goods to build endurance. Are the studies and duets taken from other people's material? I know that Book II uses 20 studies on the works of Mazas. And I know a few of them Mazas took from someone else. What do you find to be the good things for you from Book III?
I never looked so closely at my Book II. Upon further inspection, I see that $2.00 was paid for its purchase. That in itself is a novelty.
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Author: paul
Date: 1999-07-06 16:36
Wow! Only $2 for a single volume of a drill book back in the early 1940's? Due to monetary inflation, that would make the book worth about, what, maybe $200 today? The average cost of a drill book today is from $12 to $14 retail. That's only a six or seven fold increase due to inflation.
In retrospect, today's prices aren't too bad, especially if you compare the amount of material made available in each volume.
Now, if only software (an unknown item in the early 1940s) would be such a bargain today.
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Author: Dee
Date: 1999-07-06 17:41
paul wrote:
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Wow! Only $2 for a single volume of a drill book back in the early 1940's? Due to monetary inflation, that would make the book worth about, what, maybe $200 today? The average cost of a drill book today is from $12 to $14 retail. That's only a six or seven fold increase due to inflation.
In retrospect, today's prices aren't too bad, especially if you compare the amount of material made available in each volume.
Now, if only software (an unknown item in the early 1940s) would be such a bargain today.
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Software *is* such a bargain today. Back in the 60s when database software was nearly non-existent, you had to have software custom written for your company. The cost was hundreds of thousands of dollars to do so. Today you can go out and get Microsoft Works for around $50. Although it is considered a simple program by current standards, it has more capabilities than these early custom packages. On top of that, it has a spreadsheet and word processor that would beat the socks off anything that was available back then and it costs less.
You really should have looked up the average inflation since the 1940s before throwing out such a guess. The average would not have been a factor of 100. Plus some things inflated worse than others while some items have actually held steady, gone down, or simply didn't exist then (like software). For example, today you can buy a black and white television for down around $50. When I was a small child (back in the 1950s) that television was around a couple of hundred dollars, more than some of today's color sets.
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Author: paul
Date: 1999-07-06 22:00
Dee:
True. Many things have held steadier prices than others throughout the years. Many things are much cheaper today than yesterday. Conversely, many things are much more expensive, mainly due to inflation, than they were decades ago. My initial premise is exactly what was mentioned in your previous response. Some things have gotten much cheaper throughout the years, but other things have not.
A loaf of plain bread cost 5 cents back then and now it's about a dollar - a twentyfold increase. How much was a good car worth brand new then versus today? Be fair and take out the a/c, ABS, ps, pb, etc., but you can still make a reasonable comparison. About $500 back then versus about $15,000 today. Isn't that about 30 times the price? Now, take a decent pro grade clarinet. What was the going retail price of a pro soprano clarinet in the 1940s? What is the price today? Is it about a tenfold increase?
How many hours would someone have to work to earn that $2 drill book back then at say, 10 cents per hour? 20 hours of work dedicated to the task. Compare it to today's price of the same product and the minimum wage today. It's about 2 to 3 hours of labor to reach the same goal, which is a tenfold improvement. Let's look at it another way. Take the 20 hours times the going minimum wage of $6/hour and you have $120. Oops, I forgot income taxes and other deductions. Add about 30 percent more to make up for these losses. Now, we are talking over $150! Now, is my initial guess so far off the mark? That's my point. Either way you look at it, the retail price of a drill book has decreased by about ten times over 50 years. What a bargain!
As for the prices of software, of course the more specific the application, the more expensive the price. I was making a very light allusion to the concept of music composers of say 100 plus years ago to software programmers today. Both of them are valued by society by making complex works on paper for all to benefit from. Both are paid handsomely for their products. Both sets of products, if designed well in the first place, last a long time and survive through the ages. Thanks for picking up the light hint in your response.
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Author: Dee
Date: 1999-07-07 02:47
Yes it is all relative. However you are confusing the increase in wages with the increase in the cost of goods and services. The latter (the increase in the cost of goods and services) is defined as inflation. The increase in wages is *not* the definition of inflation. When wage increases exceed inflation, then you have increasing prosperity. As you have thus demonstrated, we are far more prosperous than our grandparents. More of us can afford to buy goods and services for comfort and enjoyment. If inflation exceeds wage increases, then you have increasing poverty.
Now of course wage increases can potentially be an element in causing inflation and inflation can potentially be an element in driving wage increases. However they are not a one to one correspondence. Too many other elements drive wage increases and drive inflation. If they were a one to one correspondence, then we would be no more prosperous than the peasants of medieval times.
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Author: S.W. Franklin
Date: 1999-07-07 12:54
Tim2, I'm sorry I could not respond prior to this because of the July 4th celebrations. I play some of the Grand Studies. I prefer to Melodious studies and the 5 Solos by H. Lazarus, in particular the FANTASIA On a Favorite French Air "Ma Normandie". I play some of the other material also but I am certainly not as well as I would like. I also enjoy playing popular music, that is, music from the 40's and 50's.
My copies of Lazarus reflect the following: Part I $1.50; Part II $1.75; Part III $2.00: Complete in paper $4.00
The current copy of Part I, (0327) shows $12.95; however there was a label over that price that showed $15.00. Thanks for your interest. Wes Franklin
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Author: Rick2
Date: 1999-07-09 06:55
Tim2,
On what page do the Cavillini Caprices start? I can't find it.
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Author: S.W. Franklin
Date: 1999-07-10 18:11
Rick2
I do not have any Cavallini Caprices in my Part II. I do have in my Part III Concert Fantasia, On Motivs from Bellini's Opera "La Sonnambula" by Ernesto Cavallini. It starts on page 421 and ends on page 428.
Wes Franklin
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Author: Rick2
Date: 1999-07-10 21:10
Yes, I have that in book three also. I'm sure I saw the thirty caprices in there at one time, maybe buried in the exercises, but it's possible that Simeon Bellison took them out. Tim2 I think has the older edition.
Rick
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Author: S.W. Franklin
Date: 1999-07-11 03:47
Rick 2
Tim2 must have a really different edition of Part II. My Part II dates from January 1941 and does not have the Caprices in it. I just went thru it page by page to make certain that I had not made a mistake. I have not yet found my original Part I which also dates to January 1941. I bought Bellison's revised Part I about six months ago.
Wes Franklin
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Author: Rick2
Date: 1999-07-11 06:12
I doubt it would be in part one. Although Lazarus moves pretty fast, it's not quite that fast. They might have moved them to part 3, or maybe I saw them in another book.
Rick
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Author: S.W. Franklin
Date: 1999-07-11 18:08
My Part II cost $1.75 (1941) and my guess is that the Part II that Tim2 has was a later version than mine because he said his copy had a cost of $2.00. In any event, I enjoy the scales and exercises as well as the other etudes and other pieces. Wes
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Author: Marc Meurin
Date: 1999-07-12 18:28
Take something else into consideration. It is essential to use a good method. But I have found that practicing simple trills, half step and whole step to be one of the best exercises. Your technique will improve greatly in a short time. My teacher skipped over the trill exercises, I suppose because they were boring, but they are among the most important exercises. When I began practicing them, (spend at least a half hour on each trill at first and increase the time to an hour if you can stand it) I was not the musician I wanted to be, but after three months of this, I was playing with the best in San Diego. Also, practice what you have trouble with until you no longer have trouble with the passage. I no longer use books but write my own exercises because only I know where I need improvement. There is no end to the exercises you can write for yourself.
There are many things you can practice using your 'ears' only...and this also helps you to concentrate more. Good luck.
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Author: Tim2
Date: 1999-07-13 03:15
Sorry for not getting all the way back to this post.
The title of the book has - LAZARUS' Modern Method for Clarinet (Boehm and Ordinary Systems) Revised by Gustave Langenus. The part II is in the upper right. and the price is $2.50. The Part II $2.50 looks like it was stamped instead of printed.
Page 137 is the first page. Big Title at the top "SECOND PART". Ornaments, Shakes, Grupetti, twenty-four easy duets, scale studies, Twenty-four technical exercises, more scale and interval work, misc solos, (flourishy type of stuff, 20 of the 40 studies from the works of Mazas, and then finally, with great fanfare, saying, "Come and play me", the Thirty Cavallini Caprices. (starts on page 245) Following these are a few studies based on the tough clarinet passage in the third mvt of Tchaikowski's 4th symphony. Those 32nd vs 16ths, rolling along. Last page is 312.
That's what I have. What's different about what I have? I cannot find a year anywhere on this book. It is brown (chocolate milk) color on the cover.
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Author: Karel Vahala
Date: 1999-07-14 15:54
I have recently purchased a mint copy of Lazarus Part1 in Melbourne, Australia. It was published by Carl Fischer,
62 Cooper Square,
New York NY 10003
There is no date in the book, but its ISBN No= 0-8258-0206-7
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 1999-07-14 20:40
Karel Vahala wrote:
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ISBN No= 0-8258-0206-7
If it's got an ISBN then it's relatively new!
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Author: S.W. Franklin
Date: 1999-07-19 17:30
So far I haven't found my copy of Part I. If anyone out there has a copy and would be willing to sell it, please let me know. The edition I am looking for has a gray cover and is: LAZARAS Clarinet School, A New and Modern Method for Clarinet, Boehm and Ordinary System, Revised, Compiled, and Enlarged by Paul De Ville. It shows Part I - $1.50, Part II - $1.75, PartIII - $2.00 and Complete In paper -$4.00. In the lower left corner of the cover will have a number 0327. Inside on the first page, which is a reproduction, more or less, of the cover, at the top it has "CARL FISCHER 'DE LUXE' EDITION". Thanks Wes Franklin
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Author: Tim2
Date: 1999-07-24 17:24
You may want to go to Ebay. You can set up something on their page that will email you if anything comes across that matches what you are looking for. m(so you don't have to go in every day searching) I'd just put in "Lazarus" as a key word and check the box that says, "check descriptions". (Thanks Dee) I have something for Rudolf Jettel. Still waiting for mine.
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The Clarinet Pages
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