 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: charles
Date: 2002-04-05 16:28
We all know that A clarinet is longer than Bb. My son in 7th grade will be playing Mozart clarinet concerto with my church youth orchestra. I bought him A clarinet two month ago. It’s an old Leblanc Symphony which has C#/G# key on lower joint. It sounds pretty good and is in excellent condition but he keeps complaining about the keywork of the horn. He plays Bb Leblanc L7 and is very happy with its keywork. I think it’s because A clarinet is longer than Bb and he is not comfortable on this longer horn yet but not sure.
Do you think I have to buy a modern horn for him?
Thanks.
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2002-04-05 16:57
What kind of complaint does he have? If it's that the keywork is sluggish, perhaps a cleaning and oiling by a good terchnician would solve the problem. If it's that the keywork just doesn't seem to fit his hands, I have no suggestion, except that a new clarinet will likely feel pretty much the same.
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Author: William
Date: 2002-04-05 18:00
Do you mean the extra l-h Eb/Ab key???--there is no C#/G# key on the lower joint of any clarinet that I know of. If the clarinet does have the extra l-h little finger Eb key and it gets in the way due to unfamilarity, it may be removed by a repair tech--it is nice to have but most clarinetists can play fluently without it. The longer instrument should not pose that great a problem with its "spread" keys with adequate practice. "A" clarinets do take some "getting used to" accoustically, but the change in "feel" between the keywork of an A and Bb should not be that big a deal. As stated above, however, the real problem may be a leak--have the instrument checked out by your local repair person. A "playing condition only" check-up should solve any minor leakage and not be too expensive. Hope this helps a bit--Good Clarineting!!!!!
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2002-04-05 18:34
Well said, William and John, I pretty well agree. I also have an L7 Bb and a Dynamic 2 Bb [earlier, about the same vintage of your Symphonie, I guess]. The L7 is the best-fingering horn I've ever had in my hands [I do minor repairing] and is diff. from [improved over] the Dyn., so that may be your problem. Also the Dyn is a big-bore [15.0 mm] clone of the Pete Fountains, while the L7 is a 14.8+ [middle-of-the-"road"] , I can tell the diff!! Your C#/G# may be the articulated keying [its all on my Dyn lower joint] which includes an {upper} "banana" key. It could have been bent to a "touchable" position so , again, a clar-playing repairer could find and cure it. I'll respond to further questions, I'm quite familiar with LeBlancs, generally very good. Don
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Author: Douglas
Date: 2002-04-05 21:14
William, the C#/G# key on the lower joint is likely an articulated G# key which does have its tone hole through both the tenon of the upper joint and the top part of the lower joint. There is a "sliver" key between the first two tone holes of the lower joint which could well be getting in the player's way.
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Author: William
Date: 2002-04-06 01:49
Of course--what was I thinking??? Next time I see an articulated G# I'll study it more closely--Thanks
Good Clarineting, (nevertheless)
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Author: ken
Date: 2002-04-06 03:21
Charles, if there's any doubt as to the horn's playing condiiton I'd take it to a reputable/trustworthy repairperson for a quick checkup. If just to make sure all the pads are seading properly and not swelled or damaged, springs in-place/correct tension, even a screw that's too tight can seize-up a key. If the horn's in good playing condition he may indeed be going through an adjustment period switching from A to Bb and/or the slight, exisiting key "spread". I have a Selmer A from 1952 and a new Buffet A, but comparatively, there's subtle differences in key design but distance of the keys especially on the ringed keys are identical. If it was my kid (and being a player myself) I wouldn't run out and buy him a new on based on the problem(s) you describe. Also, it's a very good thing he's applying musical integrity early on and learning/performing the Mozart on A, but if he continues to be uncomfortable, can't get the solo up to performance level and to his liking it's perfectly acceptable to pick-up a Bb version and he can perform it on that instrument.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2002-04-06 15:06
I have a couple of L7 Bb's and I agree with Don that they are about the most comfortable fingering Bb's that I own. I also have an original Symphonie A that I use as my backup. I just compared its fingering with one of my L7's and, in general, I find it quite similar in feel and look apart from the finger spread (in particular the finger spread between the first and second finger tone holes on both the upper and lower joints is disproportionately larger than other distances). If your son is not fully grown and his hands are still relatively small, this may be the discomfort he's feeling. I agree with the above posters who have suggested that, if this is his problem, he will have similar discomfort with a different make/model. In addition (though my sample is too small to draw a definitive general conclusion), I would note that my Symphonie A *feels* noticeably lighter to me than my R13. (I haven't weighed them.) I also have an original Symphonie Bb and it *feels* noticeably lighter than any of my other wooden Bb's (R13's, L7's, Selmer Series 9, Evette & Schaeffer's, E11, Evette). If, indeed, Leblanc made this model with a thinner wall or less dense wood, a different model might add more discomfort from additional weight -- at least something to think about.
If, however, the keywork seems sluggish, compared to the L7, then I also agree that a trip to a good repair tech is probably in order. In good playing condition, I think a Symphonie A is more than adequate for most 7th graders -- indeed for most high school players. Unless money is no object, I would not recommend buying another A clarinet. I would recommend you talk to your son and have him explain in detail what problems he is having with the keywork.
Another possibility on an older clarinet such as yours is that the keywork may feel loose and sloppy. It could be that some of the keys may need adjusting or swedging (tube lengthened to fit between the posts). If this is the problem, again, a trip to the repair tech is in order.
BTW, IMHO, unless your son is a child prodigy, playing the Mozart Concerto with orchestra on a Bb is not a good solution. Because it would add 5 flats to the key signature (I think I've got that right), it would increase the technical difficulty significantly.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2002-04-06 19:05
Many TKS, Jack, for your "reinforcement" of my observation-based feelings re: the 1980 and earlier pro LeBlancs. You and Ken bring up several related issues about the clars and the Mozart that should be considered. I believe I heard somewhere [on our BB?] that there was a Concerto arrangement where the piano part was transposed so that the solo could be played on Bb with the same fingerings [except of course those requiring the lowest notes for the Basset A], making the accompanist work harder?? We hope all of this may help, Charles & son. Don
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2002-04-06 21:28
Don,
I have heard of that version as well. However, since Charles' son is to play the concerto with his church youth orchestra, I don't think it will be much help here.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: ken
Date: 2002-04-06 22:09
Jack is quite correct, it would go against the grain and horrendous experience transposing the Mozart to Bb for orchestra. On A, the 1st and 3rd mvts are in Bb concert; up a minor 3rd the orchestra concert key is Eb Major. The 2nd mvt is in Eb concert, orchestra concert key Ab Major. On Bb, 1st and 3rd mvts would then be up a half step, concert Cb Major (5 Flats) and orchestra concert key D major. The 2nd mvt in Gb Major (6 Flats, you wouldn't key it in F# Major due to the accidentals) and orchestra concert key Ab Major.
I've seen a Breitkopf edition available for Bb clar and piano, but a published version for orchestra and Bb, I don't believe there's such an animal. The USAF DC Band has an outstanding transcription of the Mozart for A and concert band but you'd have to pry it from their dead fingers to get a copy. <;-)
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2002-04-07 17:51
Very true, fellas, I just raise the question as to "can a 7th grader give a satisfactory performance of any of the Mozart in a more difficult-fingering key"? I believe I'd suggest piano instead of orch. Don
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Author: Michael McC.
Date: 2002-04-08 14:19
Actually, on an A clarinet the first and third movements are in A concert, with the orchestra playing in A and the clarinet in C. The second mvt. is in D concert, with the clarinet playing in F. On a Bb, the 1st and 3rd would be in Bb, with the second in Eb, both bad keys for string players.
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