 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Aislinn
Date: 2002-04-03 06:50
Dear Music Lover,
My name is Aislinn and I am currently completing my research dissertation as part of my Fourth Year Honours degree at the Queensland Conservatorium of Music. As an oboe player, I have always perceived the oboe to have particular difficulties for younger players to overcome, and that these may be a factor in discouraging players to continue. In addition, I have also observed an unanswered demand for oboe players at my university, and still there is no answer.
My research dissertation will attempt to answer these questions. It will focus upon the beginner stages of playing the oboe and its comparison with the beginner stages of the clarinet and flute.
I would really appreciate your feedback on the following questions. Your replies will help me with my research. Thanks, Aislinn
1. A)Do you think that the difficulties of playing oboe are more demanding than the difficulties faced by young students learning clarinet and/or flute? Answer Yes/ No
B) If yes, discuss your answer. If no, in what ways?
C) Do you believe this is a common perception?
2. There is a perception that clarinet, flute, and saxophone are more popular and more widely studied than oboe. Do you think this is the case and why?
3. A) Do you feel there is prejudice or ignorance, which affects the number of students starting oboe?
B) What type of student is attracted to study the oboe?
C) What type of student is attracted to study clarinet?
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-04-03 10:59
1. Yes. My perceptions, but I don't know if they are common:
Enormous reed hassles. Enormous reed expense. Reed so easily wrecked. Enormous instrument expense. More easily damaged during assembly. Cheap instruments really badly made mechanically. The sound has less universal appeal. Beginner sounds like a sick duck. Associated with very limited styles of playing - no jazz, rock, improvising, etc - i.e. formal and verging on boring associations. Less opportunity to play in a wide variety of groups. High demands on breath pressure and embouchure support.
2. There is no 'think' about this. Statistics PROVE "clarinet, flute, and saxophone are more popular and more widely studied than oboe." Why? Because it is fact!
3. In view of No. 1, I feel the reluctance to learn oboe is well founded, actually much better founded than most realize! this could hardly be called "prejudice or ignorance"
B) What type of student is attracted to study the oboe?
I am reluctant to stereotype:
- Those who have been advised that it is a way to get into an orchestra more easily.
- Those with rich parents.
- Those who have a need to stand out as different from the rest, by a relatively easy route.
- Those who get a buzz from the unique tone.
- Those into older styles of music.
- Those who do not want to be measured up alongside masses of others doing the same thing.
- Those who have easy access to a teacher.
- Those who have an oboe lying around at home.
C) What type of student is attracted to study clarinet?
Stereotype can be extrapolated from the above oboe stereotype list.
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Author: jez
Date: 2002-04-03 12:06
1/A Yes
/B You've only got to listen to beginner oboists, compared with clarinettists, at a similar stage, to hear that it MUST be a much harder thing to learn.
/C Yes
2 It is obviously the case. Probably because they sound so much nicer.
3/A I don't think it's prejudiced or ignorant to favour instruments which sound better.
/B YOU can answer that better than we.
/C Students with good taste i8n a wide variety of music.
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Author: RogerM
Date: 2002-04-03 12:40
I pretty much concurr with Gordan. This is especially true for a true beginner---say around the 4 th grade (when I started clarinet). The expense of a oboe when it is unclear whether the child will like music at all is prohibitive.
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Author: Mitch A
Date: 2002-04-03 13:24
One of our clarinet players got the idea in his head that our community band NEEDED an oboe.... He bought one, practiced for a few months and played at ONE rehearsal.
Says it all.
Mitch
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2002-04-03 14:58
Rather than respopnd to your questions directly, I would rather make general comments.
In my opinion, the key to the entire situation is that large numbers of oboe players are not required in school band or orchestra programs. However, herds of Clarinets are required in school bands. It is not uncommon for school music instructors to steer students toward the instruments that are in short supply in their schools' music programs. Thus Directors will tend to encourage more students to study the clarinet. Parents, aside from the expenses involved, generally just want their child to "study music" and could not care less whether the instrument studied is oboe or xylophone. So, the Director's "suggestions" regarding an instrument are most often followed.
Also consider the prices of these instruments in typical "student" grade. Many parents who can handle the cost of a clarinet or flute, or even a saxophone, certainly may balk at the idea of an oboe's expense. This may be especially true if they investigate the cost of maintaining the student -- decent oboe reeds are not cheap, you may have noticed.
Regards,
John
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2002-04-03 17:36
Aislinn - I generally go along with the above comments, but may I add a bit. For early students, including those who start with clar or sax, deriving some pleasure from playing "reasonably" well is ,I believe, very necessary. My oboe-EH experience, from age 35-50, [began cl at 10], for our small symphony, did not give me much pleasure for the first several years, while trying to make reeds, accommodate to an antique key system [compared to the cl-sax ease of fingering, I did some research into the Boehm system oboe {to no avail}], develop both embouchure and breath control and suffer the complaints of "Where is your A today??". I found I was happier playing our lower-pitched cor anglais, and now prefer the bass cl [at age 82] to the sop., Goin' downhill [or Home?] . Have more thots and memories, may add to this. Good Fortune, Don
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Author: Chrissie
Date: 2002-04-03 17:38
Just an extra thought- in my experience, many directors at the younger level aimed kids away from *starting* on the oboe. They pushed all of us to more "practical" (practical being less expensive if we soon choose not to play anymore) instruments to begin with, and from there those who stayed on were encouraged to try other things if they still enjoyed music and could afford it, etc. Many however don't want to start all over again, and thus refrain from making the switch.
Of the oboe players I know, many started on clarinet or flute. The same holds true for saxaphones and bassoons. I'm not sure if this is true everywhere, but it happens.
Good luck with your study.
Chrissie
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Author: allencole@jamschool.net
Date: 2002-04-03 17:44
1. a.yes
b. Very difficult sound production for beginners. Very expensive reeds. There are plenty of other factors, but these two are enough to make it a non-starter for the average student.
c. Yes, this should be a common perception among anyone who is familiar enough with all of the woodwinds to effectively compare them.
2. Saxophone, flute and clarinet are far more visible in popular culture, are cheaper to purchase, and are needed in larger numbers by school band programs. They also enjoy lower operating and upgrading costs than the double reeds. When I was growing up, oboe was an instrument for small girls who couldn't reach all the way down a flute, and who couldn't fully cover the tone holes on a clarinet.
3. a. Yes there is a prejudice, but I don't think it's based on ignorance. Any band director would dread beginning oboes in numbers larger than needed. Any parent would dread buying the reeds. Any student would dread learning to make the sound at first.
b. impossible for me to answer
c. I'm not sure how many students are actually attracted to the clarinet initially. I was not attracted to it at all, and was upset to have it assigned to me. Yet, it's the best thing that ever happened to me. I'm sure that we have many clarinet players because not everyone can play trumpet, flute, saxophone or drums. It is the love of music that breeds the love of the instrument.
One personal comment - I think that most accomplished doublers would probably recommend using the clarinet as a gateway to the other reeds. Only a small percentage of students go on to play at collegiate or professional levels. There are clarinetists, flutists and saxophonists available out there because of those numbers.
In collegiate, professional and amateur circles, I've seen a number of successful double reed players emerge from the ranks of flutists, clarinetists and saxophonists. Beginning on easier instruments helps avoid impediments to progress as a young musician, and an already accomplished musician is probably more likely to successfully brave the unique obstacles and quirks of the double reeds.
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Author: Bb
Date: 2002-04-03 18:16
I also noted that a lot of professianal oboists didn't start out with oboe. Maybe because sax, flute, clarinet are more popular, cheaper.... Also, whenever a child is learning an instrument, they usually play it because everybody is playing it and so on. That's how I started the sax, I saw another student playing it and thought it was cool so I started playing(and I doubt that when a person listens to a student oboist will say, "that sounds so cool, i want to play that instrument) I think that there's a lot of professional oboe players that didn't start off with the oboe. Maybe because they started an other instrument and THEN swicthed to oboe. I think that playing oboe as your first instrument can be a challenge. Well at least that's what I think.
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Author: Jacy
Date: 2002-04-03 22:16
Many band directors here won't even let students choose a double reed as their first band instrument. Most double reed players around here started on clarinet and switched (usually in high school) because either they were forced to by a band director to fill a need, or because they were sick of competing with 15 other people on the same instrument.
However, in my experiences, this causes another problem. Even though the double reed players are often doublers who may have not been playing for long, they end up with all the solos written for them (unlesss they're cross-scored, which doesn't seem to happen often enough), regardless of whether or not their playing capabilities are comparable to the other first chair players. My school's oboist, for instance, was a good clarinetist, but hasn't been playing oboe long enough (a year) to sound musical while playing it.
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Author: Jeff
Date: 2002-04-04 02:59
I have twin sisters in fourth grade, one starting on oboe and one on clarinet. I play both, as well. One major problem I've noticed with their school band program is the instructional books. In rudimentary 10 measure band arrangements, in order to compensate for the young clarinet player who cannot use the register key and make the arrangement work, the oboe player must take on a whole lot. Instead of starting out learning standard oboe "throat tones," i.e. middle G, A, B, the oboe jumps around, first learning, for instance middle D, which requires 'half-hole' usage and then after 3 weeks playing, already must use the octave key and starts playing above the staff. True, jumping the octave/register on oboe is somewhat easier than on clarinet, but how fair is that for the player who has to work his or her butt off? Another source of discouragement for young oboists is definitely the lack of material for it. On more than one occasion my sister has come home crying over the fact that there are never any oboe parts, and she is forced to play flute parts. When all the kids got their instructional videotapes on how to play, put the instrument together and the like, she didn't get one. Apparently they don't make oboe tapes. When she got an accompaniment casette tape for her first contest solo, it was of course, with flute, not oboe. Luckily, she has a private teacher, and he has helped her tremendously. So, to answer your question, I believe oboes definitely have it harder starting out on their instrument.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2002-04-04 03:21
Gordon said it all and very well. As an oboe and clarinet player of many years, I feel that the oboe beginner has many handicaps to overcome. However, each case should be considered on it's merits. In a very urban environment with good oboe teachers around and lots of money, the student may do well on the oboe if they really want to play it. Some of them even sound ok.
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Author: ls
Date: 2002-04-04 15:49
I can't answer all your questions, but I can give you a brief story of my own experience with the oboe. I started with piano, played the saxaphone in Jr. High for one year, then switched to oboe because there were too many sax players and only one oboe. I loved the oboe! The sound, haunting and eerie. Got to high school and played all freshman year only to learn that the next year was marching band and they don't allow oboes to march (is it that difficult to hold and walk? I didn't think so) and said I was to be a flag person. A flag person? No way, I was an oboeist. I tried to fight by saying that clarinets marched, what's the big difference? They look similar. I could rig a music holder, but no, they would not let me march with an oboe, so I did the only thing I thought would get the message across and quit the band. I wanted to play an instrument, not play with a flag! I feel that the oboe is misinterpretted because most instructors don't push people to challenge themselves with it. Yes, it is a difficult instrument, but quite lovely nontheless. I've been searching the internet to purchase an oboe, and yes, they are quite expensive, which doesn't help their cause. I feel that oboes get a bad rap and would love to see more people trying to learn as I am trying (so far unsuccessfully) to get back into it. I can't tell you how many people have said I'm crazy to try to do this...why don't you get a quitar?? Well, I guess it's the challenge and the desire to put the past behind me and take it up again now that I have the time to do it. Do you know of any schools that are trying to get rid of the dreaded oboes? I'll keep searching. Hope your study goes well.
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Author: allencole@jamschool.net
Date: 2002-04-04 16:35
Good luck with it, LS. In my high school marching band, double reed players also carried the flag. Now, they often double on percussion.
I hope that you do get back into it. Heaven knows that the community bands could use some double reed players, and this could be a great thing for adults who are talented woodwind players in overcrowded situations.
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Author: David Pegel
Date: 2002-04-04 20:54
I guess they don't allow woodwinds to march because of the necessity for moisture in the reed and because they're so delicate compared to clarinet and saxophone. That's how one of the oboe players I know puts it. (She does flags during marching season.)
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Author: Anthony Nocket
Date: 2002-04-05 03:58
Greetings;
I am currently learning the oboe and think that it is a wonderful instrument. Despite the great expense of reeds and of the instruments and the fact that you can't march with it; i believe that it is a very rewarding instrument. It is the highlight of most boroque repitoire, including Handel's Wassermusik, and Bach's Orchestral Suites. It's particularly reedy sound is useful for numerous applications whether in ensembele or in solo playing. Dispite the more convinient usage of the flute and clarinet, the increased skill required to play the oboe as well as the lack of players makes it a good instrument to learn. Whereas there may be 16 seats of flutes in a local orchestra, an oboist has a much better chance of getting a good one because of the demand for him/her. Sure flutes and clarinets are popular, but the oboe is rare and unique. It is a particularly traditional instrument. If anyone of you has anything derrogative to say about oboists, please consider the fact that they have a much more difficult instrument to play than the clarinet.
P.S. I hate my Euphonium!
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