 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Jeff
Date: 2002-03-28 01:13
I am quite confused on the subject of Mozart's clarinet concerto and the basset horn and basset clarinet. I understand Mozart loved the basset horn, and originally wrote the concerto for it. However, this basset horn of his was quite different and box shaped. Then Stadler developed the basset clarinet in A. Did Mozart then change the concerto and rewrite it for basset clarinet?Thats my first question......
Number two.....when i went to the stadler basset horn trio's website, they all have the old, original design horns. Would it be entirely different if they were to use modern day basset horns to play mozart's basset horn works?
If so, what is the modern day basset horn used for?
I apologize for the babbling, but I cant seem to pinpoint the exact question i would like answered. Nevertheless, could someone please help absolve my confusion?
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2002-03-28 01:45
Jeff, you are not alone. Click on the "Search" button just above the "Reply" area below, and look for Mozart concerto, or Mozart K622, or whatever. Almost anything reasonably close is bound to unearth more than you can read in a few minutes. You will find that Mozart's having written the K622 originally for Basset Horn is most likely not true, along with many other fascinating tidbits. You will perhaps even find my semi-jest scenario to the effect that Mozart only outlined the piece, and Stadler completed it. This view is shared seriously by no other known individual on this planet below the age of 102. On the other hand, there is no contrary genuine evidence. By the way, it appears that the term "Basset Clarinet" was unknown until the 1950s, when it was coined by a musicologist whose name escapes me.
There are a few appetizers. For a main course, go search.
Regards,
John
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Author: ken
Date: 2002-03-28 03:34
HC Robbins-Landon, the eminent Mozart scholar, concurs: A fragment of manuscript exists from 1788 showing half the first movement of the Mozart clarinet concerto scored for a basset horn in G. Later manuscript in Mozart's hand shows the orchestation changed to A major.
It is probable that Mozart completed the concerto for Anton Stadler, revising the original first mmt to suit Stadler's new basset clarinet in A, an instrument built by the famous Viennese instrument maker, Theodore Lotz. Account records from 1792 show that Lotz was owed an amount of money for the construction of a prototype extended range clarinet in A for Stadler...
This info. is recalled from a documentary made a few years ago in which a young French clarinettist, collaborating with Landon, attempted to "solve the mystery" of K622.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-03-28 03:57
ken wrote:
" Later manuscript in Mozart's hand shows the
> orchestation changed to A major.
There is no manuscript of K622, unfortunately.
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2002-03-28 04:21
ken notes that: "Lotz was owed an amount of money for the construction of a prototype extended range clarinet in A for Stadler... "
I wonder if he ever paid the bill. Stadler seems to have been a professional debtor. It is well known that at the time of Mozart's death, Stadler owed him several hundred Florins.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2002-03-28 04:55
Actually at the time of Mozart's death in 1791, Stadler owed him the equivalent of approximately $5000. ...GBK
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Author: GBK
Date: 2002-03-28 04:59
Or in other terms: about 312 boxes of V-12 basset horn reeds...GBK
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Author: Stephane
Date: 2002-03-28 07:22
I am no musicologist nor expert on the subject, but the piano reduction of the Breitkopf edition of the K622 (the one endorsed by Sabine Meyer and her Trio di Clarone) tells us in the preface:
"For only little has survived in Mozart's hand: an incomplete draft of 199 bars in G major for basset horn and orchestra (K621b), the end of which suggests that in the course of the composition, Mozart apparently decided to write the solo for basset clarinet in A, the version from which the A-major concerto was derived. Neither the autograph of the complete concerto nor copies of the original version have come to us today, ..." and about playing it on the A Clarinet, it continues:
"Nonetheless, the soloist on the clarinet in A should keep in mind that he is playing Mozart's work in a version whose definitive form, according to latest research, did not stem from Mozart's hand."
Cited for what it is worth from:
Concerto fro Clarinet and Orchestra in A major
KV 652
Edition for Clarinet and Piano by Henri Kling
revised and edited by the Trio di Clarone
Performance material PB/OB 4447
BREITKOPF & HARTEL
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Author: Eoin
Date: 2002-03-28 08:15
Why do people insist that the original concerto was sketched out for Basset Horn and not Basset Clarinet? It was written in the key of G. Basset Horns are in F while Clarinets are in A. There is no known Basset Horn in G. Why do people say the instrument in G must have been a Basset Horn and not a Clarinet? Surely this is just a naming convention and does not tell you anything about what such an instrument would have sounded like?
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Author: David Pegel
Date: 2002-03-28 13:53
I can see why people started writing the name of the clarinet AND the key the clarinet is in in modern works now. (a.k.a. Soprano Clarinet in Bb, Contra-alto clarinet in Eb)
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Author: beejay
Date: 2002-03-28 14:57
I have a modern basset horn, and I haven't yet found a communal role for it except that it is so.....beautiful and produces exactly the sound I want. On it, I play the Bach cello suites, transcriptions of Mozart Lieder and anything else by Mozart I can get my hands on. Can anyone can give me better ideas about what to play on it?
By the way, the original sketch for basset horn is called the Winterthur fragment, and you can study it by going to the music resources section of Sneezy.
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Author: Jim S.
Date: 2002-03-28 15:01
Jeff:
How did you get to the Stadler Basset Horn Trio's site? All I get is the "The page can not be displayed" business.
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Author: Jeff
Date: 2002-03-28 18:15
Thank you everyone for your input.
As far as reaching the Stadler Basset Horn Trio's site, I reached it via a link through Yahoo. I got several links as a result, but only one that worked. Right now, I'm getting the "page cannot be displayed" business as well for all the links, so I guess I'll have to keep looking. If I find one that works, I'll be sure to post it.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-03-28 20:09
Eoin wrote:
>
> Why do people insist that the original concerto was
> sketched out for Basset Horn and not Basset Clarinet? It was
> written in the key of G. Basset Horns are in F while Clarinets
> are in A. There is no known Basset Horn in G.
There was at least one - Stadtler had it.
Just because there are no (or not very many) Basset Horns in G doesn't mean there never were any ...
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Author: Eoin
Date: 2002-03-28 21:21
I thought Stadler's horn was in A. There's a picture of it somewhere on Sneezy.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-03-28 21:48
Stadler had many horns (as did most reed players of the day), all custom made in different keys. One of the many horns was a basset horn in G, another an A clarinet that went down to a low C (basset clarinet).
With the development of clarinets using chromatic or near chromatic systems the whole passel of clarinets that used to be required was whittled down extensively.
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2002-03-30 20:18
Eoin wrote:
>Why do people say the instrument in G must have been a Basset Horn >and not a Clarinet?
One guess is that the Basset horn in G had the, for the time, typical angular shape between the upper and lower joints as suggested by Gilles Thomé in his film "Anigma K.622".
Stadler's Basset clarinet had according to Pamela Poulin's discovery, a straight body with an angle on the barrel.
Alphie
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