 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-03-28 16:33
Hi All: I searched the BB to see if my "discovery" had been mentioned before and didn't find it so here goes. I had never had an old mouthpiece with the famous green/brown discoloration until yesterday(new purchase of old horn). I first cleaned the mp with soapy water then I tried the dilute bleach carefully for awhile and gave up because it didn't do anything. Tried buffing and even 600grit paper a bit. No luck. On a hunch I then tried Sanford's permanent ink marker and it seems to do an excellent job. So far I don't have any black lips.
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2002-03-28 18:57
Bob,
For the sake of your health, please don't stick something in your mouth that has ink marker all over it! It's not worth it, just to have a black mouthpiece. The topic of hard rubber discoloration has been covered before in this forum --- please do a search of the archives for some of the solutions that have been presented. The discoloration is purely cosmetic --- the mouthpiece will play just fine, even with its olive-green 'camouflage' appearance.
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-03-28 20:19
Dave: Thanks for your concern, I do appreciate it. Yes, I do realize the discoloration is more or less cosmetic and is from the reaction of the sulfur in the hard rubber with..probably..ultraviolet light. I don't intend to use the mouthpiece as it's an "el cheapo";nevertheless I think I'll question Sanford just for h...of it. I doubt that I'm the first person who has discovered this "trick" but I haven't seen or heard of it previously. By the way....did you get the oboe?
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2002-03-28 21:04
Bob,
Didn't get the oboe, but I was only half-heartedly interested.....I already have a Larilee awaiting overhaul, should I someday find a bit of spare time (!!!???) and get serious about re-learning to play oboe. As for your mouthpiece, I seem to recall that soaking it in strong bleach solution for a few days was probably the method most likely to restore the black color (with no harmful health effects).
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Author: Todd W.
Date: 2002-03-28 23:34
Ammonia seems to work well, too. You'll want to rinse the mouthpiece thoroughly afterwards before playing on it.
Todd W.
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Author: willie
Date: 2002-03-29 04:18
Just want to add,,, don't wash with hot water as you may warp it!
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2002-03-29 13:19
I apologize, above I wrote "bleach" and meant to write "ammonia"...Doh!
....anybody seen my coffee cup?......
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-03-29 14:01
Aha..the NH3 must react with the S to form H2S
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Author: Burt
Date: 2002-03-29 20:25
My mouthpiece is nearly 50 years old. Where it's not covered by the ligature or reed, it has turned color like Bob described. But it plays fine, so I stopped worrying about it.
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2002-03-29 20:48
I have a hard-rubber Eb clarinet that's probably 60 years old, it's entirely olive-green, and plays great. My 40+ year old hard-rubber bass clarinet is also turning green and also plays wonerfully. Maybe all of this is because I, the player behind the instruments, is also 40+ years old and also slowly turning green........
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-03-29 21:17
Dave, if my theory is correct then I guess the h2s would bubble off...and smell like rotten eggs to boot. If my own personal mouthpiece changed color I wouldn't be too concerned but this one was somebody else's and I just thought I'd try the ink experiment for the heck of it. Yeh, I'm 40plusplus so you'll get no sympathy from me...haha.
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2002-03-30 02:41
Yes there are chemical ways to remove the white, tan, brown, green colorations found on some older rubber mouthpieces. These colors are formed by the residual vulcanizing chemical used at the time which react with oxygen (oxides, oxalates), nitrogen (nitrates, nitriles, etc)and various polution chemicals found in the air. UV exposure also causes the vulcanizing residues to react with air or with themselves to form colored chemical products. You may also alter the structural integrity and dimensions by constant treatment with chemicals if not done by a knowledgable person. Just as cleaning silver tarnish removes the top layer of silver, cleaning the deposits (which are now stable chemically and resist further chemical reaction) will remove rubber.
I resist using chemical formulations on these mouthpieces because you are only removing the suface discoloration and exposing a new surface to the same reactants (unless you clean and then form a constant airtight seal to retard further reactions). I like the patina of old mouthpieces just as I like the patina of old finishes on antique furniture. I do not know if it holds true for mouthpieces but refinishing antiques by stripping the old finish and applying new often lowers both the value and appearance of the piece - probably not for mouthpieces. Anyway, the proof is in the playing and not the appearance - besides it makes them unique.
The Doctor
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-03-30 12:46
I agree,Doc and if the mouthpiece had been a "collectible" I wouldn't have altered it. Good point on the silver too as clarinetists seem to want to keep removing the patina without considering that they are removing the silver. Don't hear too much about "vulcanizing" these days.
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-03-30 13:08
I have sent an inquiry to Sanford re possible health considerations from using a mouthpiece restored to black color using a "Sharpie" permanent ink marker. In the meantime,however,I note this statement on the case of the marker: "nontoxic conforms to ASTM-D4236". Please understand that at this time I am not advocating use of this product by others for mouthpieces that are going to be used but only for display purposes.
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