 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: lala
Date: 2002-03-26 08:07
My teacher does, and I am most amazed for he does the job like a pro repairman. He can detect leaks, re-adjust the keys and change pads. I don't know where he learnt all these and he won't tell. It makes me really curious. Are there books teaching you to do all the minor repair works? I can't believe it's all trial and error - not on MY clarinet!
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-03-26 09:49
There are often major issues associated with minor repairs. The books don't cover these. There are many people doing their own repairs without having any idea how much they don't know. Plenty of evidence shows up in this forum.
Often the problems mount up, they create many more, and then end up selling the instrument to some unsuspecting buyer who is then faced with the major fix-up bill.
Of course this is not always the case.
And where he learnt is rather irrelevant. I taught myself before I got any book, and was glad that I was forced to use initiative and mechanical analysis rather than following a book recipe.
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Author: George
Date: 2002-03-26 14:07
Repair of clarinets (or almost anything else, for that matter) is a three step process - Analysis, Testing and Fixing. Just to give an example - suppose your mid-staff B speaks poorly. Analysis suggests that the problem might be a leak in one of the pads in this area, the B pad itself, or any of the several just above it. If this note is the only one with a problem, then it is unlikely to be too far above the B pad. Testing requires a feeler, which you can make or buy, to determine whether the pads are seating all around, and examination of the tone hole seat for damage. So far, you have done nothing that could hurt the instrument. Fixing requires reseating the pad with the problem, or replacing that pad, or smoothing the seat, depending on what you find. Whether you want to do any of these depends on your mechanical abilities and experience, and on whether you have the correct tools. For myself, I will replace pads (even on my good horn) but should I find a damaged seat, it would clearly be a job for a professional tech, and even then one would have to choose one's tech.
Sometimes the cure for a problem can take time and be something different than you would have thought. I had been plagued for years with an intermittent problem with this B - when I used the left hand fingering, it sometimes would refuse to speak, but I never had a problem with the right hand fingering. This was confusing, since the mechanical linkage between these is such that if one is in adjustment, the other should be as well. I could find no leaks. Finally, I noticed that what I was doing was just barely depressing the left hand C# lever as I reached my finger across it to depress that left hand B lever. This cracked open the C# pad, and caused a leak then and only then. The cure was easy - I bent the B lever up just a hair, so I had just a fraction more clearance. I did this myself - whether you would want to do it depends on your feelings about such things.
I guess the point of this rather long post is that the analysis and testing phases of repair will give you a better understanding of your instrument, whether or not you choose to attempt the fixing phase yourself.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2002-03-26 16:22
I would encourage anyone so inclined to do their own instrument maintenance. You not only save money, you may gain a better understanding of your instrument and an improved familiarity with it. You'll get a 'feel' for when it's behaving right and when it needs attention. You might even become a better player... because, you'll be able to determine right away whether it's the instrument or you that needs work. This will cut your fretting time to nil :]
I had the good fortune to start working in a repair shop during high school (summer job) then continue after graduation to full time. Not all players care to or want to go into it that much of course. But, whatever you wish to do, it helps to have someone - a real, Live Person - show you how the first time (or, second time or third time Yes, it take a lot of patience.
Let's not bother with guessing about your teacher. You're wasting you time with that. Some people are good at sharing, some aren't : Find a repairer who's a share-er, preferably someone in the business, and ask them to help you. Offer to pay for the 'lesson'. It's Not all trial and error, Lala. You bring your past and present experience and a little common sense to the task, or you get help.
Books, what few there are, are pretty general in nature. They're good for reference (along with your own notes) but not so good as a teaching tool.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2002-03-26 17:45
Many years ago, I studied some with Mitchell Lurie. Because my clarinet was a little flat in pitch, he suggested I see Glen Johnston. Glen Johnston, near the Hollywood Bowl, liked to do his work while the customer sat there with him. Thus, as he worked into the early hours of the morning, one could watch him work and learn what he did. This is not for everyone, but as he was a one-of-a-kind tuner, fixer, philosopher, it was an invaluable experience. I don't know if there are any more Glens around. Buying and reading the Erick Brand repair book will be a good start. Good Luck!!
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2002-03-26 18:25
Yes, lala, I do minor (and some major) repair work, only on my own instruments. I began in about the seventh grade, when I had to learn how to replace my own pads. My first Clarinet was old and needed work now and then, and there was no repair tech within 50 miles. Some years later, I bought (cheap!) a fairly decent old instrument that needed restoration, and it became the first one I ever "did" thoroughly: replaced/reseated all the pads, etc. It turned out well. This is probably a good thing to do, if it's possible -- get a repairable old dog and try to make it play -- before attempting serious work on your "good" instrument.
I have only looked at two repair manuals, both aimed at low-level repairs, and neither gave me any helpful information. Asking questions of competent repair people is good, and as has been suggested, paying for learning time with a tech can be well worth the money. Even a couple of hours learning time could help a lot. Concentrate on pad replacement and reseating, cork replacement, testing, and adjustments. Such things as body repair are more advanced, need specialized tools, and in my opinion are best left to very experienced technicians.
I avoid some repairs, such as replacing round springs. I haven't the proper tools to do it, and buying them would be ridiculous, as I would hardly ever use them. I'm much closer to help nowadays, and I use it when needed.
Good luck and regards,
John
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Author: lala
Date: 2002-03-27 00:36
Thanks everyone. I like JMcAulay and ron's stories very much. Maybe it's the best way to learn.
I have some more thought on the issue after reading your posts, and realise how little I actually know about my instrument - and myself. When what I play is not satisfactory, I always put the blame on myself, the weather or the reed. It seldom occurs to me to check the keys. Am I working WITH my instrument? Now I know that I am not.
If you are, like me, living in Hong Kong, you can forget about finding a decent tech. It took me years to find a satisfactory tuning man - and the piano is so much popular than the clarinet here!
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-03-27 10:52
I wrote "...There are many people doing their own repairs without having any idea how much they don't know. Plenty of evidence shows up in this forum...."
George provided an excellent example:
"....Suppose your mid-staff B speaks poorly. Analysis suggests that the problem might be a leak in one of the pads in this area, the B pad itself, or any of the several just above it.... Fixing requires reseating the pad with the problem, or replacing that pad, or smoothing the seat, depending on what you find.... "
So far curing the B problem seems so straight forward.
Thankfully George continues...
"Sometimes the cure for a problem can take time and be something different than you would have thought. I had been plagued for years with an intermittent problem with this B - when I used the left hand fingering, it sometimes would refuse to speak, but I never had a problem with the right hand fingering."
Now this is probably the most common adjustment problem on the clarinet.
"This was confusing, since the mechanical linkage between these is such that if one is in adjustment, the other should be as well."
This is actually not true, and illustrates the limit of George's knowledge.
When using the right fingering, the key presses against the upper pivot screw in a direct that is approximately down the post, towards the timber. When using the left hand fingering the key presses on the pivot screw in almost the opposite direction.
If there is any 'sloppiness' between the key and the pivot screw, or if the post is insecure, or if the pivot screw itself wobbles - all of these being very common indeed - then this change of direction of the force makes a big difference to how the B key links to the C key. iIf there is the slightest maladjustment in the seating of theses pads then the problem will be highlighted by useing hte left fingering of B.
There are dozens of mechanical phenomena such as this which play a part in the operation of tghe clarinet, and make the difference between a good servicing job and a poor one.
BTW, nothing personal; I did not write this to get at George, but it did provide a useful illustration of how much more there is to clarinet adjustment than most realise.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2002-03-27 17:50
Living in Hong Kong with no qualified techs within a reasonable distance... lala -- That's a problem :|
Maybe, like JMcAuley, you'll have to learn 'from the ground up'... whether you really want to or not. You know what they say about Necessity being the mother of Invention. J's been there and back.
Probably the best course for you at this time is to keep in touch here. Post specific questions as you go along and I'm sure many techs and fixers will dive right in to help you. None of us knows it all, but we sure have a lot of fun
Ferree's (Sneezy sponsor) has branch offices in several countries. They sell all the supplies you're likely to need to service your own instrument(s). They've been very good to me with advice to specific repair matters too.
Keep on tootin', lala :]
- ron b -
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-03-27 21:31
lala - I can give you Andy Simon's email address and he could tell you where he takes his clarinets for work when he's in town. Email me privately.
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Author: George
Date: 2002-03-28 15:22
To Gordon (NZ) - point well taken. I skipped a step in my recitation of the analysis, as I had indeed checked for wobbles of all sorts.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2002-03-28 15:42
Excellent question and responses, they all portray my learning/doing experiences and philosophy. Most of what I do is for students [mid and high, needing quick repair] only a few advanced ones or semi-pros. I try to observe where my skills [as an engineer, not a skillful "musician" nor repairer] reach their limit, and where highly skilled tech work is required [out of town and lengthy], where my friends may smile at my efforts, but applaud my "public service" . Enjoy the experiences and acquaintances! Don
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