 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2002-03-20 23:35
I am coming out of semi-retirement and post traumatic stress syndrome (from the besmirchment of my imposter) and want to ask a serious question -- since gig money depends on demand, I am looking asking those Jazz people in the community what horn they like for New Orleans style jazz. My problem is that I have trouble projecting over the loud brass, sax, and keyboard blair (listened to the recordings). Any reccommendations that you have are welcome (maybe a mike and amplifier is the answer?) Thanks to all.
The Real Doctor
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Author: Martin
Date: 2002-03-21 00:00
A Selmer 9 is a might be a good choice if you are in the used market.
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Author: Martin
Date: 2002-03-21 00:02
Sorry about the typo- The Selmer 9 might be a good choice if you are in the market for a used horn.
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Author: AL
Date: 2002-03-21 01:36
What is the set-up your currently using?
Maybe you should check out the old Conn 444...with an open faced mpce. Ala: Woody Herman ,Artie Shaw
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Author: diz
Date: 2002-03-21 02:04
Hello
The Pete Fountain clarinet is a "jazz" clarinet - I think it's made by Leblanc. I've not played one, by one of my friends who plays one thinks they're pretty good -- worth a try, I guess?
diz
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2002-03-21 03:06
I play an older R-13 with a pretty open faced MP and a 2 1/2 reed and blow my brains out. I used to use a LeBlanc but the keys are just different enough from the Buffet to cause my fixed fine muscle memory to screw up too much (just not as flexible as the younger set I guess)
The Doctor
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Author: Don
Date: 2002-03-21 03:31
The problem you cite is universal, one I know from experience. My first suggestion is to find a horn section that understands dynamics, but it'll be easier to locate a clarinet with more carrying power.
I now play a BT Selmer with a Vandoren 5JB mouthpiece. It's not only louder than my R-13, it's fuller. I also agree with the person who suggested the old Conn 444. I've never played one, but I've heard them and they're nice. Here's the Ebay listing of one that failed to meet its reserve last week: 851335833. Maybe the seller will entertain an offer?
Good luck. Let us know what you get.
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Author: Mark Pinner
Date: 2002-03-21 10:19
Hi there,
A large amount of my income comes from playing traditional jazz which is often played completely accoustic. I use a couple of different horns. The main working clarinet I use for both trad work and big band is an F. Arthur Uebel 21 Key Oehler System. Outdoor accoustic work I prefer one of two Albert systems a Kohlert 9 key or an 11 key Henri Farny.
Another piece of advice for an really serious traditional clarinettist is to practice lots of tune/melodic work across all registers in a variety of keys.
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Author: Brian
Date: 2002-03-21 10:33
Diz was right about the Pete Fountain...it is made be LeBlanc (who else right diz!).
The Pete Fountain has a large (15.00mm/.590") bore which Pete says helps him achieve his famous "fat" sound. It comes in 2 flavors...a standard 17 key/six ring silver plated key model or the 18 key/six ring gold plated key model. You can learn more about them at:
http://www.gleblanc.com/
Good luck Doc!
Brian
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Author: graham
Date: 2002-03-21 13:41
I believe the answer to your question ultimately does not lie with the design of clarinet you use. I doubt a wider bore lends a significantly more powerful sound (if more powerful at all). If it did, you might as well get a wide bore Rossi, Eaton Elite, or old 1010, and all these would give you an extra .2 mm over the Fountain instrument. And you say you already use an open lay mouthpiece, so the only change there that might help would be to get one with a flatter or even convex baffle which would make the tone more cutting even though not louder.
The problem is unlikely to be with your set up or even with you, but with the others. Why is it that most jazz (trad included) I hear is amplified? Usually to project across a large room of chattering people, but also partly to help equalise balance. This has gone out of kilter since the New Orleans days, because, wide bore trombones now make a fatter sound than earlier narrow bore trombones, wide bore trumpets ditto compared to the narrow bore trumpets of that period, let alone the cornets used by many of the better trad players. Pianos are also louder. The clarinet as a design has not kept up relative loudness, so it needs help from amplification. What is the answer for you? Simple in theory. If your group wants to play New Orleans as it really sounded, they should get hold of period instruments and play them with the subtlety combined with verve of the original players.
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2002-03-21 16:17
Dr. Omar,
Although I tend to agree that the choice of horn won't make a huge difference in your ability to be heard above the band, I would offer a suggestion if you're going to try large-bore clarinets: The Boosey & Hawkes "The Edgware" models (mid- to-late '50s vintage are the best) are plentiful and cheap, and with only a moderate amount of modification (which I've detailed in an earlier thread on the BB) can be made to play quite respectably. Much less cash outlay than a Rossi, Eaton, or 1010.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2002-03-21 17:39
Hi Omar - The above 5-6 posts have said it well, while I have a number of the 15.0 mm LeBlancs [P F style] and several "fairly large bore Selmers" I'm not greatly comfortable in relating bore diameter to volume capability, much depends, IMHO, also on mps, reeds and the individual's capability. Lee Gibson in ?Chap 8? has some thoughts here. I fondly remember the old G Millers with cl lead [who was he?] but feel that the saxes were "toned-down" for a reasonable balance, prob. what's now needed!! Don
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Author: beejay
Date: 2002-03-21 19:00
I like the noise I get out of my open-faced Otto Linx mouthpiece. It makes even my Buffet Crampon RC sound loud.
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Author: John Kelly
Date: 2002-03-22 03:57
In earlier posts I have put my two bob's worth in for the type of clarinet used for jazz so here's , more or less, a re-hash of info from the recent past .
I am a New Orleans [as opposed to the dixieland/trad] style player and the bands I play with expect me to cut through the brass and 3 or 4 rhythm players without the use of amplification and I have no real problem in doing this at all. In the situation where there is exessive use of carpet or drapes, light amplification [ie PA mic] is OK, though not always essential.
It really depends on how much power you can muster from within and the equipment you use. By equipment I REALLY mean what strength of reed and the type of m/p you choose. I used to use a ROC 6* but it broke so I hunted around and found the Vandoren 5JB to be a good replacement for the now unavailable ROC. To this I add a Rico reed of ~ #4 strength. If you are used to 2-2+1/2 then this is quite a leap, so go in stages through strengths and build up your chops. An hour every night for a month and you will pretty well be ready.
I play a Buffet - Albert system horn too, a really old job, which I am told is a small bore, but I wouldn't know the difference actually, it has a wonderful action and a marvelous tone, so I'm not complaining.As far as tone is concerned, I would advise keeping away from amps as much as possible. So much of it depends HOW you play, not necessarily how loud, and an amplifier will not encourage you to build up your chops and develop a good broad tone and increase your volume. I played around with a friend's very modern and very expensive Yamaha Boehm system recently and whilst I couldn't get around it very well, I would have to say that my tone and volume was much the same as I get out of the Buffet, so I contend that "It ain't what you got, it's the way that you use it"- and I hope I may be forgiven for quoting an old cliche!
Listen to genuine New Orleans players also, such as: Johnny Dodds, George Lewis, Albert Nicholas, Omer Simeon and etc....there are many more....mainly black players actually....out of N.O.who all played accoustically in brass marching bands and in combos in clubs. All of the above [these are my favourites] have wonderful tones, powerful projection and vibrato and cannot, under any circumstances, be bypassed if you are considering playing jazz.
Do you want to hear some of this music for free? Go to the Red Hot Jazz Archive on the www for access to these players and there are literally hundreds of free downloads - not to be missed. There's a fair amount of corn too, but lots of terrific music nonetheless, great for browsing.
Good luck.
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Author: beejay
Date: 2002-03-22 12:57
George Lewis's "Jazz at Vespers" is my favorite jazz record.
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2002-03-22 13:13
Dear John,
Thanks for your advice - from a professional. I usually play a 3 1/2-4 reed and medium to closed MP for orchestral work but will work on a stronger reed on the more open MP which gives me more projection with my current horn. I now seem to get more flexibility with the open MP and a softer reed. I guess that there are many combinations of MP, reeds, and hardware used by players to get the end result but I appreciate all the suggestions and tips to help me narrow down the search for what will work for me.
The Doctor
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Author: Alaric
Date: 2002-03-24 10:48
Gawd! We started off sensibly with someone suggesting a Selmer Series 9, and the Conn 444 was a nice thought, but there's also the Selmer 10, or Benny Goodmans favorite--the Centered Tone. I was surprised not to see the suggestion of an Albert Silver King in the mix. We can have LeBlanc, and other contenders, but lets just go back to the Selmer 9, and add: An open Kaspar mouthpiece. A BG Revelation ligature. A Zonda reed, a 3 or 4 or whatever you can stand---And you will have LOUD.
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