 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: LynnB
Date: 2002-03-15 16:11
Hi,
Just thought I'd share this with you. I went to hear the VPO the other night. Maybe I hold them on a mental pedistal but they didn't WOW me as they did a few years ago. Don't get me wrong, overall it was wonderful but they seemed to have some problems with staying together when winds and strings had a delicate entry. They rotated 1st clarinetists and bassoonists depending on the piece and they played beautifully. The percussionists were fun to watch. They had a wind machine for Strauss' Don Quixote that kept them busy for a while. My non-musical husband was with me and didn't understand why the tympanist kept putting his head down on the instrument. "Is he taking a break!?" I had to explain about tuning issues :-D
No protestors that I could see and you'll be happy to know there were 4 (yes, count them - 4!) women performing with the orchestra.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-03-15 16:23
All the women were subs, not members of the Vienna Philharmonic.
Since the harpist retired there have been no new women members.
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Author: LynnB
Date: 2002-03-15 17:14
There were 2 listed on the program; a violist and another harpist. I could be mistaken but I understand they only list members on the program and others were subs. I read that the violist was now a member and well respected by the others. Don't have the official news however.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-03-15 18:31
From Klarinet:
Subject: [kl] Vienna Phil Women
David Hattner asked:
<Were their names listed in the program? The recently retired harpist who played for 30 years never had her name listed because she was not officially a member until her last year or two.>
Of the five women, only two were listed: a violist Ursula Plaichinger, and a harpist Charlotte Balzereit. Both names had asterix by them, which meant they were "newly engaged musicians, who do not yet belong to the Vienna Philharmonic Association." Anna Lelkes, the 30-year veteran harpist, was listed under a long "In Retirement" list, which included ICA member Alfred Prinz. The bassoonist and clarinetist, as well as a violinist, were not listed, even though they played all three concerts.
Things change slowly, I guess..........
-----
Jim Lytthans
Anaheim, CA
http://home.earthlink.net/~lytthans/index.htm
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2002-03-15 18:53
Incredible.....I suppose we should be grateful the women players weren't required to wear burkhas (sp?).......How can such blatant sexism survive into the 21st Century, in such a supposedly civilized and progressive culture such as Austria's?
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-03-15 19:02
Actually I have no problem with Vienna doing what it does - I just don't avail them of any of my hard earned cash. If I was an Austrian citizen I'd be up in arms since they are not a private orchestra but receive government support.
There are orchestras around the world which restrict membership (gay/lesbian orchestras are relatively common and there are a number of female only orchestras) but they are privaely run in most cases. And that's just fine with me. I should probably start a short fat nearsighted bald guy's orchestra 8^)
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Author: Phil
Date: 2002-03-15 20:08
This problem dates back for years. I remember someone also talking about Karajan with Berlin. He was apparently pushing for women to be included in the orchestra(other than the harpist) in his later years.
I don't think the problem is sexism, it's tradition. Those orchestras date back hundreds of years. They have followed the same rules( wether written or unwritten) for their entire life as an orchestra.
I also feel that the resistance of the inclusion of women in these orchestras comes from the older members and patrons of the orchestra. Here there is still the mindset of tradition. With the passing/retiring of these older members, the ways may have an easier time of changing. This is not something that will occour overnight. It's going to be a long change. However, I'm positive that in the next 10 years that there will be a relaxing of the all male membership.
I don't speak from any direct lines of contact to the orchestra, but only from my experience.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-03-15 21:05
Phil wrote:
> I don't think the problem is sexism, it's tradition.
Phil, I know you didn't mean it that way, but the argument made here is the same one that is used to promulgate just about every prejudice.
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2002-03-18 15:35
As an aside to Mark's third post, I recently was invited to play clarinet in a gay/lesbian community band (I'm straight, by the way), and they were super-nice to me --- I'd still be playing with that group if my schedule permitted. I'm not sure if they receive public funding or not, but certainly in their case there was no 'reverse discrimination' against me. And as for 'tradition', I wouldn't consider that to be acceptable justification for the exclusion of qualified women (or Jews, or midgets, or people who spell funny) from a symphony orchestra.
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