 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Sue
Date: 2002-03-13 12:25
My daughters 35 year old Conn bit the dust this week. Must have been a weak spot where the two pieces connect. It broke in half. I have been told it can not be repaired, so we need to find a new one. But where to start?
She is in 7th grade, has been playing for almost two years, has held first or second chair all year (IMHO, has a great deal of talent). She received a merit scholarship to band camp last year and will be attending again this year. She is planning on staying in band thru High School and possibly college.
We need at least a step up from a starter student instument, but we have decided against wood, due to marching band, band camp, etc. We don't want to spend $1000, but also want a quality instrument.
Checking ebay there are alot of names that I never heard of - Victory, Albert, Merano, Monique, Tamaka/Grand, Heimer, Steuben, Bestler, Laurel, Gingge, Jupiter. I have only heard to stay away from Alexander, Lark, Kohlert, Winston, Comet and Beth due to poor construction quality. Can anyone give me any insight?
The music stores around here (western detroit area) only seem to stock a small number and I'm sure they would love to sell me anything they have on the shelf. I just want to make the best choice. The band director is checking out catalogs, but he is a trombonist. Help!
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Author: MsRoboto
Date: 2002-03-13 12:42
Stay with the big 4 brands...LeBlanc (plastic line is Vito), Buffet, Yamaha, Selmer (plastic line was Bundy not sure today).
Many of these turn up used on EBay. clarinetgrammy is selling a Vito 40 on ebay. She is well respected person at smeezy and sells many clarinets.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=850230417/
This auction ends in about an hour so you would have to hurry.
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Author: Gerry
Date: 2002-03-13 13:35
I've seen a number of Selmer Bundy's on eBay at very reasonable prices. You should be able to pick one up for less than $200 that will need very little work to be playable, perhaps none at all. Suggest using present mouthpiece. I don't like used mouthpieces myself unless they can be sterilized.
Gerry.
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Author: KevinS
Date: 2002-03-13 13:55
Since your daughter is planning on sticking with the clarinet through college, I'm surprised nobody has recommended the Buffet Greenline. It's a professional level clarinet made from a wood composite material that won't crack, but still gives a "woody" sound. Often they can be found for close to your budget of 1000.00 or less. That works out to about 70 cents a day for the next four years if your daughter continues to play!
Good Luck
Kevin Stockdale
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Author: David Kinder
Date: 2002-03-13 14:38
If you can find a Greenline R-13 for under $1,000 - LET ME KNOW!!! I've only seen them for the same price as regular R-13's around $1500+.
The plastic Selmer line is known as a Selmer USA model (versus pro-line Selmer Paris).
As for choosing a new student instrument, I'd also stick with the big 4, but I'd just remember how long it would be before the student OUTGROWS the instrument.
After you get your new replacement, start looking for new mouthpieces and ligatures to help with tone quality. Once you've found them, then look for higher quality instruments.
You may also want to check your local pawn shops. You might be able to find a good clarinet for fairly cheap. Be prepared to spend another $100 for an overhaul, but it's a cheap way to go.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2002-03-13 14:44
Sue;
You just saved someone here a lot of typing
This is one of the best lists yet posted...
' - Victory, Albert, Merano, Monique, Tamaka/Grand, Heimer, Steuben, Bestler, Laurel, Gingge, Jupiter.... Alexander, Lark, Kohlert, Winston, Comet and Beth'
...of 'brands' to avoid. They're all known for being almost total junk.
Also - Parrot, Antigua Winds, Rhythm (now Jinyin) and Mudan :|
______________________________________________________
P.S.
Your daughter's Conn can be repaired. Some old Conns are pretty good, some are not. The tecnician who evaluated the problem no doubt felt the instrument isn't worth the cost of fixing it.
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Author: Fred
Date: 2002-03-13 15:52
Brenda's V-40 didn't meet reserve price. I'd contact her and by that instrument ASAP. It is a very good plastic instrument - and a bargain at her Buy It Now price. You'd pay twice that at a music store for the same used horn.
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2002-03-13 16:37
If Kohlert is not a good Clarinet, I must have missed something. Also, I do not know of Albert as a current brand. I will now go search the archives. Other than that, along with ron b's appendix, it looks like a pretty complete list to me.
I agree with MsRoboto.
Regards,
John
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2002-03-13 17:08
In the last few weeks there have been three V40's besides Brenda's on eBay. They sold for $50 (some damage to the bell whose extent is hard to tell but probably relatively minor), $70 and $94. There are none currently listed for sale but they come up fairly often. IMO, two things distinguish Brenda's from the others, (1) if she says it's in good playing condition, it is in good playing condition because she knows what she's talking about. Many sellers do not. (2) She included a brand new Vandoren 5RV Lyre mouthpiece. While these list for $99, their street price (at mail order stores) is closer to $55 (plus shipping). If you don't take the mouthpiece, you might be able to negotiate the price down, somewhat. If your daughter's current mouthpiece is working well for her (and it sounds like it is), she should probably stay with it at least for awhile longer. If you do take the mouthpiece, I recommend that you request separate return priveleges for it (and are clear up front about what the refund on the mouthpiece will be). Most of the comments on this board about the 5RV Lyre are that it is novice-friendly. However, every player is individual and, even if your daughter needs (or is ready for) a new mouthpiece, the 5RV Lyre may not be a good choice for her. Ideally, she should try a variety to find the one that fits best. At least, however, if she's only going to try one, you should be able to return it. Without searching, it wouldn't surprise me to learn that Brenda has given similar recommendations on this board in the past and I expect she would be willing to do this for you.
This may all be moot because she may have already negotiated sale of the clarinet to one of her bidders.
I have not played a V40 so I can't really say how good an instrument it is. Comments on the board in the past have been quite positive. But note that most (though not all) of these comments have come from Brenda. I have played (and own as my outdoor clarinet) a Buffet B12 and I think they are a very good instrument. On eBay, the price range on recent sales is around $150 to $300. For eBay, I think that's a little high. There is one currently at $99 that would probably be a good buy at that price. Also, there is one listed as "new" for $250. That's about $100 below new price at the mail order places but the seller's name is "mrpawn" and the instrument is not in its original plastic. Newer B12's (brushed plastic to simulate wood grain) seem to sell significantly higher than the older shiny ones on eBay. I doubt they play much better.
If you decide to buy a new clarinet from a local or mail-order store, be aware that, whether they are any better or not, Buffets maintain their resale value better than any of the others. Conversely then, you should get a better used price on one of the others.
By "others" I mean Leblanc (Vito), Selmer, and Yamaha. I would also avoid all the manufacturers on your list. Too risky.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: jbuter
Date: 2002-03-13 17:43
The quality of Jupiter instruments is quite good these days. They are the most receptive instrument manufacturer to LISTEN to repair technicians, band directors, and performers for improving their line. Their quality has surpassed all those originally listed and I would rather have a Juptier than anything UMI (Conn, King, Artley, Armstrong,etc.). I'm sure some of the older ones have may be suspect, but they have made tremendous strides in quality the past couple of years. (No, this is not a paid endorsement.)
jbutler
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2002-03-13 19:09
Jack, I am mystified as to how you draw the conclusion that damage to the $50 V40 sold recently on eBay is "probably relatively minor," unless you just hold the generic opinion that any Clarinet damage is probably relatively minor -- which I guess is not really unreasonable.
For information, I bought that instrument, because I enjoy repairing (my own) Clarinets. This instrument does not have a bell problem, it is rather the bell tenon. It is almost half gone. Missing. Broken away To me, this is not the sort of problem I would call relatively minor. Not catastrophic, though, and it will be whole again in due time. Anyway, even with the broken tenon, the seller said it plays well, an attribute not claimed for the $70 and $94 instruments (instead, they were said to be "in great shape," and such).
Curiously, I have never bought a Clarinet from eBay which was said to be playable and actually was not. "In great shape," however, seems to be a universal description that's applied to almost anything that's still in one piece or at least close. I remember one item description which even said, "It's in great shape, it just has one problem. I can't get it to work." Surely, the introductory statement "I don't know much about clarinets" is a dead giveaway. If a seller tells that to the world, why would anyone believe a later statement that "the pads all look good"? And surely, many eBay sellers really do not know what they are selling. How many silver-plated Clarinets have been offered up on eBay as soprano saxophones?
Anyway, had I not already bought my cheap, broken V40, I'd have wanted the one Brenda is selling or maybe already has sold.
Regards,
John
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2002-03-13 19:50
I'm holding it for Mark C. If he doesn't buy it it'll be up for sale again. And, yes, I'll give your money back if there's a problem. But, I really prefer not to send out a mouthpiece if the buyer knows they don't want it. A discount would be in order.
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Author: Paul
Date: 2002-03-13 21:18
You can also get very close to a semi-professional wood sound by simply replacing the plastic barrel with a wood barrel. I stuck a used wood Buffet barrel on my plastic clarinet when I first started to play again. This along with a custom mouthpiece changed my sound so dramatically that for the first time it sounded like I was making music. And not that Jr. High sound that I and most beginners come to expect. Good luck! Paul
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2002-03-13 21:18
John,
In this case, I simply blew it. My focus was on finding the price range in recent sales so I didn't look at the descriptions of the respective instruments as carefully I should have. Frankly, I misread the seller's description and, to compound my error, because Ebay (or our server) was extremely slow this morning, I didn't stay at the listing long enough to realize that there were pictures. Had I read the description more carefully or looked at the pictures, I would have realized, as I assume you did, that the problem was actually about half a missing tenon. I would not regard this as minor -- a plastic tenon replacement (complete with cork) runs about $70 around here (St. Louis) -- more than you paid for the clarinet. And it is damage to one of the joints, which I consider far more serious than damage to a barrel or bell. (Around here, for student instruments, used (and usually matching) replacement barrels and bells are fairly easy to come by for under $20.)
A point to be made here, however, is that the seller did try to describe the damage and did provide pictures, including a clear picture of the damage. The effort was obviously to disclose the problem, not to cover it up. I just failed to look carefully.
IMHO, there's already more than enough misinformation floating around this board. That I should have contributed to it through carelessness is most unfortunate. I apologize.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: ron b
Date: 2002-03-13 21:58
JMcAulay -
All I can say is - oops! :|
I overlooked that Kohlert was included on Sue's list. Had I noticed right off I would have excepted it. Kohlerts are, in my meager experience, good instruments.
Glad you caught that. Thanks. My mistake/oversight. An apology to Kohlert :
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2002-03-13 22:03
Jack, what impressed me about that particular instrument was the seller's disclosure. It has a fairly serious problem which he did not try to hide, and he also says it plays well. If I can believe him on the broken tenon, I should be able to accept the playability statement. BTW, had it been a broken *upper* joint tenon, I would not have bought it. To me, it's worth 50 bucks. Seems that it wasn't to anyone else.
No apology necessary. That didn't cost anyone one red cent (oh... they aren't red anymore).
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2002-03-13 22:18
Re: Kohlert clarinets --- I think the confusion is that there are currently new instruments (saxes for sure, as I own such a soprano sax, I don't know about clarinets) labelled "Kohlert" ---- the current "Kohlerts" are made in Asia by who-knows-whom, and have nothing to do with the generally fine instruments formerly made by the grand old Kohlert company (variously of Bohemia, Czechoslovakia, and Winnenden, Germany) which disappeared around 1974 (the remnants, as I understand, having been absorbed into Bernd Moosman's bassoon-making company). So the "new" Kohlerts, if they exist, are likely to be the same low-grade Chinese (or possibly Taiwanese if we're lucky) instruments as all those "stay-away-from" brands mentioned above. I must say, however, that despite the mediocre materials and workmanship of my new 'pseudo-Kohlert' soprano sax, the darn thing plays really well --- I can't explain how THAT happened.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2002-03-13 23:48
Maybe they actually turned out a good one by mistake :|
? ? ? ? ?
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Author: Lawrence
Date: 2002-03-14 01:16
Sue,
You have asked a simple question and you deserve a concise answer.
Step-up horns are not much (if any) better than student horns. Stick wirh the Big 4; LeBlanc (Vito), Yamaha, Selmer, and Buffet. You can't go wrong with any of their plastic models. The Woodwind and Brasswind has great prices and you can get the instruments on approval. Don't like it, send it back. Good luck.
Lawrence
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Author: Dee
Date: 2002-03-14 02:59
JMcAulay wrote:
>
> ...Curiously, I have never bought a Clarinet from eBay which was
> said to be playable and actually was not.
Interesting. My experience has been quite different. EVERY clarinet that I have gotten off eBay was said to playable and WASN'T. Each one needed a significant number of pads replaced before it was playable. Of course all could hoot an open "G" and maybe that is what the seller meant.
However, I expected them to need work to be truly playable and bid accordingly so did not "get taken" on any of them.
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Author: Sue
Date: 2002-03-14 03:08
Thank you everyone! I can't believe how many responses I got in such a short time!
I spent the better part of the day going from store to store, asking questions and looking at instruments. I have eliminated some stores, so when I take her to try out instruments, we won't go to too many places.
She had a concert this evening (on the borrowed instrument) and I got another chance to talk to her band teacher. They will arrange for a loan for a month or so. They want her to take some private lessons and after the instructor gets a feel for how she plays, have the instructor come along on a buying trip. The store that is on the top of the list also is confident that they can find a new section (tenon?) and replace it. We have decided that she can then use the old instrument for outdoor use and we will probably buy a wood clarinet for her that should last her thru college, as long as she isn't a music major. (then I guess we will have to go shopping again with the visa card)
Again, thank you all for your input.
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Author: Joe O'Kelly
Date: 2002-03-14 03:59
I recomend a refubished Evette Master Model. The quality of an r-13 at a fraction of the cost.
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Author: Melanie
Date: 2002-03-14 08:01
Selmer Bundy's are a thing of the past. I played one throughout high school, then I stepped up to a Noblet, now I finally have my Buffet, but the new Selmer student clarinets are the USA's. At least that's what my teacher told me. Our university recently bought several of them for the beginning woodwinds class. The work nicely. Everything seems to seel well, and there hae been no problems (except for the instrument that was dropped). Good luck finding an instrument!
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