 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: jez
Date: 2002-03-11 08:48
Diz's query reminds me of an unusual thing I heard recently.
The English clarinettist Michael Collins has recorded the Beethoven violin concerto arranged for clarinet and orchestra. Obviously some of it comes down the octave and he can't do the double-stops but it seems to work. Has anyone heard it? What do you think? What pieces do you think would work on clarinet? Or is it a good idea to 'steal' other instruments' repertoire? I know I hate it when I hear Brahms sonatas on the viola!
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Author: Stephane
Date: 2002-03-11 10:33
I've never heard the Beethoven violin concerto arranged for clarinet, but that must be something! About your point, it is not a matter of "stealing" I guess. A lot of composers indicated on scores that such piece could be played by this or this instrument. The Schumann fantasy pieces op 73 for instance composed for Clarinet and piano are just lovely with the clarinet replaced by a cello as suggested by Schumann himself. The practice has always be very common and I think this is a very interesting thing that allows us to discover or rediscover such or such piece.
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Author: graham
Date: 2002-03-11 12:11
Stephane's point reminds me of a CD cover I saw recently which annoyed me more than somewhat. I cannot recall the exact piece, but was perhaps the Brahms Sonatas, or the Schumann Fantasy Pieces. Anyway, the performer was photographed on the front cover holding a clarinet. This was held in the prominent position, but he also happened to be holding a viola. The title of the disc was something like: "Clarinet music (on viola)" and a closer inspection revealed that it was indeed viola, and not clarinet. Most people would spot the ruse, but I feel sure many would buy it thinking they were going to get the original work played on the right instrument, rather than the viola version.
One of my fantasy performances is to hear the Copland Concerto played on a Beethoven period box wood clarinet. Not a transcription, but fun anyway (if anyone would do it).
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2002-03-11 15:51
jez -
I have the CD, which includes the Mozart Concerto on a modern basset clarinet and the Beethoven Violin Concerto in a transcription.
The Mozart is a well above average performance. The Beethoven is a tour de force -- amazing that he makes it work -- but loses a lot compared with the violin version, as you would expect. It's not just the lack of double stops or octave transpositions.
First, the violin bow is a much more flexible way of making sound than the breath. The variety of attack you can make with a bow, and the great variety of articulation, come naturally to violinists and only with the greatest effort to clarinetists. With a bow, it's possible to make small swells and accents that the comparatively clumsy breathing muscles can hardly do at all.
Second, violin and clarinet tones are tonal opposites. The violin has a thin but plangent sound, with lots of "ping" that makes it carry, particularly on the high notes. Clarinet tone in general, and English clarinet tone in particular, has a broad, warm quality with only just enough of the higher components to make it carry.
Finally, the violin plays easily in the stratosphere. On the clarinet, even for someone on Collins's level, the necessary effort and control change the character of the music.
I think it demands hearing and, at least for clarinetists, is worth buying.
I have nothing against players of other instruments "stealing" our music. I'd perform the Schumann Oboe Romances in a minute. I've learned a lot from recordings of the Brahms sonatas on viola, and, in my opinion, the best recording ever of the Brahms Sonata # 1 was made on violin by Isaac Stern.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: A David Peacham
Date: 2002-03-11 19:47
I also have the CD and am massively impressed with the Beethoven, less so with the Mozart. It works brilliantly as a clarinet concerto; of course one can argue that it loses out to the original in some respects, but it doesn't sound like an arrangement. It sounds like, well, it sounds like the Beethoven clarinet concerto.
I first heard the Beethoven on BBC Radio 3 (the national classical music station.) I switched on part-way through the piece, and did a complete double-take when I heard this very familiar music being played on the wrong instrument.
It would be fun to put the CD on when a fellow clarinettist comes to visit, and watch their expression change when the soloist enters.
My clarinet teacher also plays violin and viola, and steadfastly refuses to listen to this CD even just the once.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2002-03-11 19:50
"...My clarinet teacher also plays violin and viola, and steadfastly refuses to listen to this CD even just the once..."
Change teachers...GBK
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Author: A David Peacham
Date: 2002-03-11 20:18
GBK, that seems a little harsh. Are you condemning her for being narrow-minded about arrangements, or for not being single-minded enough about only playing the clarinet?
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Author: diz
Date: 2002-03-11 20:45
As a "retired" professional musician (viola and clarinet) I have performed both the Brahms Sonatas in both their versions and I like them both equally. Brahms treatment of the viola is quite effective and the tonal range certainly compliments the instrument.
Mark points out quite correctly, both the clarinet and viola version of the Sonata are Brahms versions - not an adaptation.
Edward Elgar also "authorised" a version of the cello concerto for viola (played by Lionel Tertis) - I possess the music, but wouldn't "dare" perform it. Seems to loose the tonal point when played on the viola.
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Author: diz
Date: 2002-03-11 20:46
jez - perhaps you need to broaden your musical appreciation - then again, as the proverb goes about teaching tricks to ...
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Author: jez
Date: 2002-03-11 20:58
You can't teach an old dog new tricks....................
At least you don't have to teach them not to listen to violas.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2002-03-11 21:14
A David Peacham...What I do object to is inflexibility.
One may not care for (or vehemently object to) adaptations of string works for clarinet, but a musician should have enough tolerance to appreciate an artist on his/her merits of performance.
Michael Collins is an established professional with an extensive discography. To dismiss his playing out of hand due to concerns about the "correctness" of his chosen repertoire is quite short-sighted. Is one to assume nothing can be learned/appreciated from his playing?
I hope that this instructor's inflexibility does not extend to principles of clarinet instruction - not being open minded enough to try (or listen to) other ideas.
This smacks of a child who will not at least try his/her vegetables because "they don't look good".
I condone your attitude, but not your instructor's...GBK
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-03-11 22:11
Indeed, if one is too rigid then the beauty of the Schubert Arpeggione Sonata would never be heard today ... when's the last time you heard it played correctly on the arpeggione? (J.G. Stauffer of Vienna in 1824 created the arpeggione. It was basically a bass viol w/ 6 strings tuned like a guitar but bowed, and had metal frets ... not too many around anymore, though a very good luthier could custom build one for you. Interesting to note that Stauffer employed C.F. Martin when Martin was a young man.)
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Author: Josh
Date: 2002-03-11 23:56
In keeping with the topic of strings for clarinet...you have GOT to hear Robert Spring's rendition of the 3rd movement of the Mendelssohn Violin Concerto in e minor. It's *amazing*. I see nothing wrong with transposing literature from one instrument to another. If it's beautiful music, and you're moved by it...play it on whatever instrument you have at your disposal. If Mozart can do it...why not the rest of us? (the Flute Concerto in D was originally written for oboe in C...works gorgeously on both instruments.) Speaking of flute, also check out Stoltzman's recording of the Prokofiev Flute Sonata. It's hot
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Author: Stephane
Date: 2002-03-12 07:33
Josh & Ken,
Could you please give me the references of the Beethoven/Mozart and the Mendelssohn CDs? Many thanks.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2002-03-12 16:15
Stephane...This Bulletin Board has a link to Amazon.com.
I'm sure Mark would appreciate the added $$ by using it. Happy to help...GBK
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-03-12 16:28
Actually this board doesn't ... but there is one on the bottom of the Sponsor's page ...
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Author: GBK
Date: 2002-03-12 16:54
Mark...thanks for the correction. I actually knew that, but my fingers and brain went in another direction (similar to "Sorceror's Apprentice" - which I was working on this morning).
I hope all the added $$ keeps Sneezy around for all to use and enjoy - it's the best entertainment value on the web...GBK
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Author: Stephane
Date: 2002-03-13 12:26
Guys,
I'll make sure that, through donation or proper use of the sponsors (whenever possible from France...), I will contribute to keep Sneezy around. This is indeed the very first time I find myself so addicted to something... other than my wife, my daughter and my clarinet!
Stéphane.
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