 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: John Noecker
Date: 2002-03-10 15:36
Hello again, everyone. Just out of curiosity, does anyone have an opinion on the "Buffet Evette E11 Bb Clarinet"? I have a rather limited budget (the clarinet is actually kind of a Christmas gift, as the one I got for Christmas was broken), and it seemed to be rather nice. Woodwindbrasswind.com says $589. That sounds pretty reasonable to me. I believe this is the same clarinet as the "Accent" line by Buffet? (You may not have heard of this. The local music store tells me it's a clarinet made just for them, selling for $695 which is 35% off list price. I'm just not looking to pay that much for it, especially as they are offering me $50 for my clarinet which needs minor repairs). If you're wondering why I don't just have my clarinet repaired (it's an old Selmer Signet Soloist), it's mostly because the mouthpiece is nonstandard, which is just a pain. So, any opions on the E11? You're advice would be greatly appreciated. Just about everyone here probably knows a LOT more than I do. Some more information about me (in case you're opinion is dependant upon it). As of Friday I have been playing clarinet for 1 year, and I absolutely love it. I'll be playing clarinet next year and throughout my remaining years of high school and hopefully into college. I might possibly minor in music or some such thing, not sure yet. If I was to do something with music, I would obviously need a better instrument (not an R-13, though! Too much of a cliche for me!). But, would the E11 be OK for now?
Thanks,
John
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Author: Corey
Date: 2002-03-10 16:29
Yes, I have an E11 I got it 2 years ago and I love it! With the right set up you could sound really,really nice sound. good luck with it(if you get one).
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2002-03-10 17:24
John,
While the E11 is (per Buffet) a wooden student model instrument, it is well-made and can serve you for a long time. I know some pretty good players in adult concert bands that use E11's ... however:
a new E11 is really about the same level instrument as an old Signet Soloist (some would say the soloist is a higher-end instrument) and if your greatest source of discontent is really your mouthpiece, buying a new E11 may not be the best way to solve your problem. The stock mouthpieces that come with Buffet clarinets do not have a reputation for being great mouthpieces (though mileage will vary from user to user). Many people who buy E11's also end up buying a replacement mouthpiece.
IMO, you might well be better (or at least more economically) served at this point by having your Soloist repaired and then trying some new mouthpieces. If you have only been playing for a few years (your post doesn't say how long you've been playing but it sounds like perhaps only a few years), a starting point might be the Fobes Debut. Another mouthpiece that has earned positive reviews here in the past for novice players (< 3-5 years experience) is the Vandoren 5RV Lyre. (Personally, I have never found a single Vandoren mouthpiece that I like but that is a personal opinion and others think highly of them. In any case, they may be worth a try. Or, you might want to try some of Selmer's step-up mouthpieces.) If your local store has a good selection, you can try a variety. They will probably charge you a sterilization fee of around $2.50 each but may waive that, if you actually buy a mouthpiece from them. If your local store doesn't have much of a selection, you can have someplace like the Woodwind and Brasswind send you up to three at-a-time to try (my experience is that the Fobes Debuts are very consistent so you might only need to try one of them, the others have a reputation of being less consistent). If you don't like the mouthpieces you receive, you can return them and only be out a restocking fee.
If I'm right about how long you've been playing, you might tell the people at the store (or WW&BW) that you'd like to try a mouthpiece that has a medium to medium-close tip opening and a medium to medium-long facing as a starting point. If you tell us a little more about your playing level including the mouthpiece an reeds you are currenly using and what you don't like about them, we can probably give you more precise help.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2002-03-10 17:26
Something else I should have mentioned. If you are taking lessons from a decent clarinet teacher, s/he should be willing and able to help you.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: John Noecker
Date: 2002-03-10 17:54
Ok.. I´ve been playing for 1 year now, completely self taught. My band teacher really doesn´t want me to play clarinet, and I´m not yet taking private lessons. My problem with the soloist is actually very simple. I don´t like the mouthpiece, and the barrel is just slightly too small to take a standard Bb mouthpiece. I´m not sure why that is. Is that not how Soloists normally are? Currently my soloist is unplayable, but I'm thinking it's just a leak. Perhaps I will look into just having it repaired. Is it possible to have the barrel modified to take a standard Bb Mouthpiece? If so, any idea how much this could cost? I'll have to look into having it repaired. The guy at Zeswitz (local music store) seemed to think it was in pretty terrible condition, but it doesn't really look it to me. Maybe he was just trying to justify his offer of $50?
Thanks for the help,
John
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Author: Jerry McD
Date: 2002-03-10 20:36
John,
Don't listen to the person trying to make a deal for you to trade in your clarinet. He is not interested in your well being (not a character flaw, it is just business). You can probably have your Selmer completely overhauled for $250 or less (compare that to a new instrument - regardless of maker). Also, the problem with your barrel is easily fixed, you could probably do it yourself if you feel confident that you could do it. What is needed is the insided socket of your barrel needs to be sanded down a little bit, this is the part where you put the mouthpiece. The corked side is called a tenon, and the receptacle is called the socket. I have had this done to my clarinets so that my A and Bb sockets are the same. If you want to do it yourself take a piece of about 220 sandpaper and as you hold the sandpaper on the inside edge of the top socket on your barrel, apply light pressure and smoothly turn the barrel with your free hand. Only go around 2 or three times and check your progress. You might find that it only takes about 5 minutes and you problem is solved. I would still wait until your clarinet is put back in working order before doing this repair (or you could have the tech do it at the same time).
Good luck, and let us know how it comes out!
Jerry McD.
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Author: drew
Date: 2002-03-10 23:47
Hi John,
Regarding the Buffet E-11, it is a very nice "intermediate' level instrument, you couldn't go wrong with such an instrument.
However, you can have your Signet Soloist (also a fine intermediate instrument) fixed and purchase a new mouthpiece for a fraction of the cost of the Buffet. Put the savings into some lessons and you will be MILES ahead. (I had a pro level LeBlanc with the same problem fixed for FREE during an overhaul. I do not recommend that you attempt this repair, leave the repairs to the pros.)
Many people get hung up on the equipment, forgetting that the most important piece of the equasion is the instrumentalist, not the instrument.
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Author: wILLIAM
Date: 2002-03-11 00:02
I have an E-11 C clarinet that plays very well. These clarinets (E-11s) seem to be built with care and it is possible that you could use it at the college band performance level. However, if your intentions might be to become a clarinet major, then I would recommend purchasing a more pro-line instrument right now. There are many good used pro-line instruments for sale by reputable sellers right here in the Sneezy Classifieds--and an older clarinet may be just as good (or better) than a new one. In any case, keep your Selmer and have it repaired to "playing condition." This is a "fix only what is necessary" proceedure and not a total replacement of all pads and corks as in a "complete overhaul." Such a repair may only cost $75.00--and that, plus the cost of a good Selmer or LeBlanc stock mpc will provide you with a quality instrument to use as a back-up (outside gigs, marching band, pep rallies, etc) Trading it in for $50.00 is not in your best finacial interest--once put in "playing condition" and even without a mouthpiece, it would bring much more in Sneezy's Classifieds, eBay, or your local newspaper. Good Clarineting!!!!!
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Author: Lawrence
Date: 2002-03-11 03:05
John,
As a clarinet/low brass doubler, I offer the following advice:
The MOUTHPIECE/REED combination is of utmost importance. Find a good m/p and a reed to match it.
The CONDITION of the clarinet is far more important tham the brand name. Have a good tech check it out - -it may need only a minor adjustment.
From your previous post, I gather you aren't happy playing Euphonium. Well, that's OK. But try to treat that as a learnng experience. If you go on to major in music, then, it will serve you well in composition and arranging. All musical experience is valuable in those areas.
Lawrence
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2002-03-11 05:33
I find three Signet Soloists listed in recently completed auctions on eBay. All appear to have been in good to excellent condition, the price range was $250 - $330. $50 is too low an offer for yours, particularly as a trade-in on a new instrument. Either (1) your instrument has some serious structural damage, or (2) the people at your local store don't know thier clarinets, or (3) they are trying to take advantage of you. If the situation is (2) or (3), you should seriously consider finding another store to work with. You really can't trust them very far. Don't assume the situation is (1) until you have a second opinion from a reputable dealer who knows clarinets. (The clerk behind the counter of a guitar and drum store probably doesn't qualify.)
IMHO, given that you've been playing for only a year without lessons and have limited funds to spend, I think its premature to assume a music degree just yet. I do not recommend you buy a professional model -- particularly an older one even if it has been refurbished -- at this time. Your clarinet, if properly repaired is more than enough for recreational use through college and beyond. If you do eventually decide to pursue a career that involves the clarinet, you will have plenty of time to learn more about equipment and make an intelligent choice on a new professional model toward the end of your high school or beginning of your college career. Then you'll have a top-notch instrument in good condition when you most need it.
I'm a little curious about the small barrel issue. How many mouthpieces, other than your own, have you actually tried in the barrel? Or are you going on the word of the store owner? The first thing you need to do is find a reputable store with a good repair tech. Where do you live? Are you near any good sized cities or major universities. If you give us some information, there will probably be someone on the board who is familiar with your area and can make a recommendation. If you can find someone you can trust, you can get a fair assessment of what your instrument needs and what it will cost to repair. A full set of new pads, if needed, should run $100 - $125. Tenon corks run $12-$15 each. Often a shop will clean and oil your instrument as part of a full pad replacement. Considering what Signet Soloists are doing on eBay, if you can get yours in really good shape for under around $200, the repair route is probably your best choice. As others have suggested, some lessons would be a good investment for some of the money you save over buying a new instrument. As far as sanding the barrel is concerned, given your lack of experience and the first rule of do-it-yourself clarinet repair ("First do no [permanent] harm."), I think you would be well-advised not to sand your barrel. Wait until you are told it is necessary by a repair tech then let her/him do it. It won't cost much and they'll know how much to take off. (Since you only have one mouthpiece and it fits, you don't have a reliable frame of reference.)
It would also be helpful to know what mouthpiece you currently are using as well as reed. Because you've only been playing for a year, though, I would change my earlier recommendation. For you, I would suggest a Hite Premier mouthpiece for now (should be around $20-$25) and Rico Royal 2 1/2 reeds. At this point, I think anything more advanced/expensive would be overkill.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2002-03-11 13:48
I was going to post a comprehensive reply, but Jack Kissinger has said just about everything. Good post, Jack!
I would only add that buying a professional-level Clarinet because you intend to major in the instrument makes about as much sense to me as buying a Lotus if you intend to become a professional race driver.
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-03-11 14:37
John: $50 trade-in for your horn is not a good deal, in my opinion.
I don't understand why you just don't have it repadded or whatever it needs and get a new mouthpiece if you feel that's necessary. I have two E-11s and love both of them. I don't 100% agree with the comment about people getting hung up on instruments because my experience has been that the E-lls play and sound better than anythng else I've played except the R-13......where it was a draw.
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Author: Matt
Date: 2002-03-11 19:22
John & others:
I had a hard rubber Evette that was a VERY tight fit for my mouthpieces. The same mouthpiece fit easily into the other 3 clarinets I had at the time but was almost unfittable into the Evette. I measured the MPC side of the barrels of all my clarinets and found that there is definitely differences from clarinet to clarinet.
So, my 2 cents:
1) Keep the Selmer and have a competent technician evaluate & probably overhaul it for you. Tell us where you are and then use the recommendations of the people on this BB to find that person. IF he says it's hopeless then buy a new one. I don't expect that to happen - more than likely he will be able to turn it into a very nice instrument.
2) Don't touch your barrel with sandpaper. Let the technician do that for you. He may say that the cork on your mouthpiece needs to be sanded instead of the barrel. Have you ever tried another MPC in your barrel? You may be surprised.
3) Play the Selmer until you really need the next step up or until you are financially sound enough that you can buy a new clarinet just because you want to. Either way, by that time you will be knowledgable enough to make an intelligent educated decision.
My 2 cents. Enjoy your clarinet, whatever you decide to do.
Matt
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Author: Ambuoroko
Date: 2002-03-11 19:46
Wow, thanks everyone. Actually, the reason I was going to sell my Selmer is because my uncle (who got my the Selmer for Christmas) was tired of all the problems we were having with it. But, after citing what some of the people here said, I've convinced him to let me keep it. I'm almost sure no one here would know the area in which I live. The biggest city anywhere near me is probably Reading, Pennsylvania (USA). There's a music store there called Zeswitz, which is a school band supply/repair store. Luckily, I've known at least enough not to even try at the local guitar and drum store. When the guy at the counter calls your violin a guitar, it's obvious their expertise doesn't extend into the finer instruments (nothing against guitars and drums, of course!). Actually, Zeswitz sends a representative to our school every Monday, so he took my clarinet with him. I've tried 2 mouthpieces that I know were standard. One I have played in several clarinets while testing them, and the other I played in the clarinet for which that was the original mouthpiece. It isn't even the cork of the mouthpiece, but rather the plastic part that is too large. Basically, I've just told the Zeswitz representative to "fix it". If it comes back to me still unplayable, I'm hopeful that someone here can recommend a better repair shop, but I'm betting that it will be just fine with Zeswitz. They seem to know what they're doing for the most part. I'm pretty sure I got the guitar and/or percussion salesman (I have all the luck). Kind of ironic as I purposely didn't go to the guitar and drum store, eh? Anyhow, thanks for all the help. BTW, I've been playing on the original mouthpiece of my friend's old Noblet clarinet, on a Rico 3. I could actually probably play on a harder reed, as I have plenty of air/breath control (flute and euphonium will do that for you), but I find the 3 to be sufficient. I actually need to play on something harder than a 2.5 because I have very high aspirations and insist upon playing clarinet 1 parts whenever I possibly can. The fact that I can generally play them is pretty good though, I think. Still have to work on those really high notes (E+) though. Anyhow, thanks so much for the help. You can probably expect to see me again in another week or so. I'll let you know when my clarinet gets back. BTW, as to my career in music... it would probably be my ideal career, but I'm not good enough :(. Oh well. If I ever do anything with the clarinet, I'll be sure to come back and thank everyone for all their help. If you were wondering, I was looking at possibly music education, but I'd have to get in on Euphonium, which would just ruin it for me. *grin* Anyhow, thanks!
John
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-03-12 15:26
John: Don't be too sure I don't know the name of the town you live in since I lived in Sinking Spring....
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2002-03-13 19:14
I like the Lotus idea.
Buffet E-11s are excellent instruments for beginning-intermediate players. They usually have nice tones and will help the student to practice good orchestral technique. They're usually well built and have a good resale value when you get ready to move up to the R-13.
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