 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Marty J
Date: 1999-02-03 14:55
Just a little venting here.
It is incredulous to me that we have to put up with the poor quality of reeds and lack of standardization in reed strength measurement. I don't know about you, but when I have to spend $10-$20 a box for reeds and cannot use half of them, I get angry. Then, if I try and find another brand, I have to spend money on a couple of different reed strenghts to find thr correct strentght, and then I have to throw out half of those.
Are these companies so arrogant that they just want to continue to give us a lousy product, and why do we allow this to continue.
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Author: Bill
Date: 1999-02-03 15:26
It's even more aggravating for those of us who have to pay $40-$50 for a box of contra clarinet reeds.
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Author: Steve Reisteter
Date: 1999-02-03 16:02
Maybe it's just me but I've been having a lot of luck with Zonda reeds lately. They're a little expensive but I seem to be able to use nearly every one and they really seem to last. I started using them in November (after using the good but erratic Vandoren Black Master for a few years) and I've been extremely happy with them. I use them for orchestra, concert band and show work. I can't say enough good things about them. I use a 3.5 which is like a regular or V12 Vandoren strength 4. Give them a try & let me know what you thinki about them.
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Author: paul
Date: 1999-02-03 16:07
Don't give up half a box of reeds and then lay all of the blame on the manufacturing company for variations in strength and playability. Remember, it's all up to you to make the reed work for you. With that said, here's a start on the explanation for variability and techniques you can use to get more value out of your investment in a box of reeds.
1. Natural cane is going to vary. No two fingerprints are the same, so why should you expect 100% consistency and playability to your unique taste/style out of natural material? It's never going to happen, or if it does happen it's a very rare occurance. Over a 50 year career, I would bet that a pro will remember the very few reeds that were "just right" fresh out of the box. What's more, even if that pro thought the world of that very special reed, chances are very good that the pro right next to her/him would think that very same reed is a piece of junk. Ditto for the very same reed for the pro a month or so later. The point here is that you can chase the "holy grail" of reeds for the rest of your life and never find it. Even if you did find it, chances are pretty good that the honeymoon won't last very long. It's not necessarily the reed's fault. More likely, the person slightly changed his/her embochure or technique, making the reed less desirable for those specific conditions.
2. There are techniques to tailor a reed by using a reed rush or a very sharp tool, such as a small file or reed knife. Reed rushes are cheap, but not very easy to find. A whole box of a dozen rushes shouldn't cost more than a couple of dollars (US). The trick is to find the store that still sells them. The genuine masters of the clarinet know these techniques as almost a "black art" full of near magic. There are books published that give out the majority of the tricks, but the ability to fix up a reed to an individual's exact specifications I believe is very much a highly skilled task, based on decades of experience. Ask your local pro for tips and tricks to fixing up a reed, starting with a standard Vandoren natural cane reed, fresh out of the box and a wet soaked reed rush. Believe me, you would be amazed at the difference in reed performance. After your lesson on reed tailoring, start with some reeds that you feel are expendable and practice tailoring them until you find the ideal reed design that meets your specific needs. Then, use those techniques on your playing reeds. After a few years of tailoring reeds, you will know exactly what works for you and what doesn't.
3. The Vandoren company (as a specific example) makes it a point to put reeds of slightly varied strength in each box. The Vandoren company openly admits that it can grade reeds down to a tenth of a strength, but that doesn't necessarily sell reeds. So, they chose a different solution. For example, a box of Vandoren 3.0 reeds may have some 2.8, 2,9, 3.0, 3.1, and perhaps 3.2 reeds in it. It's not a scam made to just sell reeds. They do this on purpose to satisfy the majority of customers out in the market.
4. One brand of artificial reed (Legere) has pretty good quality assurance, apparently by checking hundreds (perhaps thousands) of specific data points for each reed they make. Even they openly admit that the reed may not play exactly as you would like it. However, they also will tell you that if you doctor up one of their reeds, you won't be able to return it for a warranty refund. I have personally found the Legere reed to be pretty good, but not as responsive as a natural cane reed. Nothing I have found yet can beat natural cane for response, playability, and quality of tone.
5. Each reed/mouthpiece setup is unique. Each embochure is unique. You may need to tailor your embochure for each set up you create. A high quality mouthpiece helps tremendously. So does a personally tailored natural cane reed.
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Author: Marty J
Date: 1999-02-03 18:09
I guess that I don't buy the arguement that it is up to me to make the reed work for me. I think that manufactures have a responsibility to give me a product that I can use.I am not talking about slight variations in a box from reed to reed, but I find unplayable reeds, and are you really suggesting that I change my embochure from one reed to the next?
What other product that is manufactured for use by the public has to be changed and adjusted in order for one to be like another or to make the product usable?. I understand that the cane has variances, but so do most raw materials.
I don't want to get argumentative, but it is clear to me that the reed industry should clean up their act.
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Author: paul
Date: 1999-02-03 19:01
While I can't argue with your feelings about reeds, because I have them too, I still believe that there is a lot of adjusting going on every time I play one reed and then another. Sometimes the variation in embochure isn't that much, at other times it's more.
The point that I wanted to make is that there is a lot that the person can do to recover what initially seems like a hopeless reed. There will still be some really bad ones that you just can't do much with. However, I believe that many players can get a lot more value out of their investment in a box of reeds if they put some work into it. I've even heard of pros claiming that they were practicing diligently for hours and hours on end, when in fact they were spending a lot of the time working on reeds.
Here is another variable that can lend credence to your opinion. The reed manufacturers use a simple bending resistance test to gauge the reed's strength. However, only when you actually begin to play the reed on a horn will you find out its actual responsiveness, its ability to "snap back", yet be pliable enough to work smoothly as it's buzzing. That's a very tough test for a reed and it can only be done by playing it. That's why I would prefer that the companies actually test play the reed before they package it. There are questions that need to be answered, such as sterilizing techniques that won't ruin the reed, etc. That's why I like the new Legere artificial reed. It's actually test played before it gets packaged at the factory. Of course, plastic is easier to sterilize than cane without destroying its characteristics. At least I believe this is a step in the right direction for quality assurance.
Now, if someone could come up with a cane reed sterilization technique that doesn't damage the reed's playing characteristics, I believe that person could make some really good money. Weak hydrogen peroxide has some merit when it comes to squeezing some extra life out of a tired reed. I can't vouch for this technique for sterilization. I don't personally know of any trick that verifies 99.99% sterilization (enough to satisfy US civil lawyers) without doing at least a little damage to a cane reed or making it taste really bad. Once you have the sterilization trick down, you then need to ask the question: "How much am I willing to pay to have a pro check out my reeds for me?". Watch your price per box of reeds skyrocket if you expect each and every reed to be personally played and tailored by a manufacturing company. Don't be shocked if the per reed cost of about $3 each (full retail in the US) suddenly shoots up from $15 to $30 EACH for a natural cane reed. If that happened, I'd be the first to join with you in a serious protest of the entire reed industry. Just keep in mind that the Legere reeds cost about $15 each (plus applicable taxes, shipping, handling, etc.) and that part of this price is driven by test playing the reed.
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Author: Marty J
Date: 1999-02-03 19:27
I know of a couple of players who also have been impressed with the Legere reeds.
What reeds do you play, and what is the relative strength of
the Legere in comparison. (A question that standardization would take care of)
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Author: paul
Date: 1999-02-03 20:58
I have three Legere reeds. According to Legere, my particular reeds are equivalent to Vandoren standard (not V-12) 2.5, 2.75, and 3.0.
The 2.5 is very light. It cuts off a lot (as expected) and the sound (tone) produced isn't very good. I often think I'm playing my old beater of a plastic clarinet instead of my Buffet Festival (with a Vandoren B45 mp) when I play the 2.5. The 2.75 is better, but the tone produced still isn't up to par with my Vandoren V-12 natural cane reeds. I believe the Legere 3.0 is pretty stiff for me. It plays and responds only with a lot more air and embochure support than the other two Legere reeds. I can tire easily with the Legere 3.0. I personally believe that the Legere 3.0 reed I have behaves more like a Vandoren V-12 3.5 or equivalent reed. I still need to experiment with the reeds on my Vandoren 5RV Lyre mp to see if their behavior changes. This would be a more fair comparison, because I asked Legere to make an equivalent reed in 2.5 and 3.0 for my Vandoren B45, and 3.0 for my Vandoren 5RV Lyre.
Legere has a unique reed identifier number for each reed they made for me. I believe that having the configuration managment that tight will eventually permit the player to specify exactly the reed specifications that meet his/her unique requirements and play what they believe is the perfect reed right out of the box. This is the closest I've seen a reed making company reaching the elusive goal of a perfect reed for the individual player. If Legere starts getting it exactly right for some of the high profile pros, I believe the need for reed tailoring will end. That may be good for ordinary folks like me who may never get the black art of reed tailoring down well enough to use it for a significant advantage. However, I also believe it may be bad for the art of the clarinet and other reed instruments in the long term. I believe there is a certain "sweetness" to the tone of a clarinet using a natural reed that plastic just can't match, at least with today's technologies. I'd hate to see that disappear with the extinction of the natural reed.
Opinions? Feedback? Have I opened up a hornet's nest yet? I look forward to everyone's comments on this point.
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Author: Mario
Date: 1999-02-03 21:16
I also play with Legeres Reeds, and I am very happy. I use Legeres 3.75 with a Charles Bay wooden MOM. The results were excellent from the moment I found the exact strenght that worked for me. I started with 3.0 and went up in increments of .25 up to 4.0, finally settling down to 3.75 as my best set.
I like the sound (a little bit on the bright side, but mellowed a bit with an Eddie Daniel fabric ligature), the intonation, the response. I like the predictability the most.
I currently have 10 3.75. They are indeed very similar to each other. So I am learning and adapting to these reeds consistenly. It is amazing the piece of mind that you have when you know that the reed in your box will play like last time, and that all reeds play the same.
I am sure that accomplished clarinetists who invest time and effort in reed preparation and management will find reeds that play better than my Legeres. But as a serious amateur with little time, the consistency and basic quality of the Legeres are such that I was able to improved my playing immediately. In my experience, amateurs (with lumpy playing schedule and little time for polishing reeds) tend to play with bad reeds most of the time, keeping a precious few for the special occasions. My Legeres is much better than most cane reeds I ever played with. It might not be as good as the best cane reeds hidden in professional cases, but they are better than 99% of the cane reeds I ever bought.
Try a few. Play with them a few hours to mellow them down (they will), find the set-up you like, and start relaxing about your reeds
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Author: Jessie
Date: 1999-02-03 21:34
I posted a similar complaint about reeds about a month ago... after a whole month of searching and searching... I finally found the BEST reed brand for me! They are the Rico Grand Concert Select. I find them VERY VERY consistant and they have had a long life for me so far! I love them! I suggest that you should try them. For a while there I was really hating playing the clarinet because of my constant reed problems. Now I enoy playing more than ever! Hope I could help!
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Author: John Morgan
Date: 1999-02-03 23:19
I purchased 2 Bb and 2 Bass Legere Reeds the same strength I normally play on cane. All I can say is thank you to Mr.Legere for saving me hours of working getting cane to play just right.
I used to envy brass players who could warm up their mouthpiece, put it on their horn and play. Well folks, I can do exactly the same thing - warm up my reeds, put them on my mouthpiece and play. About time!
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Author: Nicole Y.
Date: 1999-02-04 00:38
Well,
I must admit I find Vandoren very inconsistant(sp.?). Some of their reeds are fuzzy and others are perfection. I find Rico much more consistant, but I am unable to pursue their reeds at this time(band director). So, try what works for you. Granted, there will always be inconsistancies.
Nicole Y.
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Author: Meredith
Date: 1999-02-04 01:07
I have to disagree with you guys on the point that fixing reeds is a "black art". My private teacher said she fixes up her reeds with a little bit of sand paper. I decided to try it. I took a few of my unplayable reeds out of my box of Vandoren 3.5's. I didn't really have a method or anything. I just sanded them down. I would put the reed on my mouthpiece and play a few scales in each register and if it still wasn't good then I would sand it some more. My result was 5 or 6 (out of a box of 10) pretty good reeds that had formerly been destined for the trash. Maybe I was just lucky but I intend to do the same thing with my next box of reeds.
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Author: Dee
Date: 1999-02-04 02:52
Marty J wrote:
-------------------------------
I guess that I don't buy the arguement that it is up to me to make the reed work for me. I think that manufactures have a responsibility to give me a product that I can use.I am not talking about slight variations in a box from reed to reed, but I find unplayable reeds, and are you really suggesting that I change my embochure from one reed to the next?
What other product that is manufactured for use by the public has to be changed and adjusted in order for one to be like another or to make the product usable?. I understand that the cane has variances, but so do most raw materials.
I don't want to get argumentative, but it is clear to me that the reed industry should clean up their act.
-------------------------------
Reeds are NOT the only products that exhibit significant variaton. Wines are far more variable than reeds.
However, no matter what brand of reed I have tried, once I was at the appropriate strength, I get 7 or 8 good reeds and generally the remainder are playable with only a little work. Some brands however work better for my setup and embouchure than others.
For starters, many people make the mistake of thinking that you should mount every reed exactly the same way every time. This doesn't work. One reed will play best if you mount it a hair higher than normal, another is best a hair lower. The ligature can be moved up or down slightly. The scribe line on the mouthpiece is only a guide not a mandate. Occasionally a reed needs to be mounted very slightly to one side. Finally most reeds will show a tendency for the tip to curl toward the mouthpiece resulting in difficulties in playing. However all you have to do is press the tip of the reed on a flat surface (the mouthpiece lay is handy) after soaking it and before mounting it on the mouthpiece.
Just these simple position changes will make more reeds playable without changing your embouchure and without having to adjust the reeds. Since I tend to have too many activities going on, I don't want to spend time adjusting reeds (although once learned it is fairly easy to do and doesn't take long).
Reed adjustment is described in detail in many works on the clarinet (e.g. Daniel Bonade's Clarinet Compendium).
Also don't pitch a reed that is giving you problems. Changes in the weather affect the interaction of your mouth and reed. The reed that was great on a hot humid day can be a real dog if the weather turns cold and dry. The reed that was unbearable in summer may be perfect for winter.
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Author: paul
Date: 1999-02-04 14:07
Dee:
You mentioned the Bonade Compendium. Could you tell us the publisher and (if available) the ISBN number for that book?
It looks like this book is worth its weight in gold.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 1999-02-04 14:57
paul wrote:
-------------------------------
Dee:
You mentioned the Bonade Compendium. Could you tell us the publisher and (if available) the ISBN number for that book?
It looks like this book is worth its weight in gold.
From the Bibliography section (you forgot about that one, right, Paul :^) <b><a href= http://www.sneezy.org/clarinet/Resources/Bibliography.html>Link to Bibliography</a></b>:
Bonade, Daniel
Clarinetists Compendium
Leblanc
Kenosha, WI USA
1960. Includes section on reed making
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Author: paul
Date: 1999-02-04 16:40
Mark:
I haven't found the bibliography section of your BBS yet. I'm sure it's there somewhere, but it's not on your menu/submenu system that I can see at this time. Perhaps I missed it. Could you tell me under which submenu I should expect to see it?
As always, thanks a bunch.
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Author: paul
Date: 1999-02-04 16:43
Mark:
Nevermind, I found it under the "Resources" submenu. Now, for the killer question, is this book still available for purchase or is it out of print? Perhaps only LeBlanc knows for sure...
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Author: Kevin Bowman
Date: 1999-02-04 17:05
At this link:
http://www.saxgourmet.com/reedadj.html
you can find a summary of what to do to a reed when it is not responding the way you want it to. It's for sax reeds, but a reed is a reed.
Also I think Keith Steins's "The Art of Clarinet Playing" includes a section on reeds. This is one of those books that every clarinetist should have in their library.
Kevin Bowman
Clarinet & Saxophone Instructor,
Rochester Conservatory of Music, Rochester, MI
and
Saxophones, Clarinet, & Keys,
B-Side Blues Project
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 1999-02-04 19:21
Kevin Bowman wrote:
-------------------------------
Also I think Keith Steins's "The Art of Clarinet Playing" includes a section on reeds. This is one of those books that every clarinetist should have in their library.
I have both Ben Armato's book, "PerfectAReed and Beyond", and Larry Guy's book, "Seleciton, Adjustment, and Care of Single Reeds". Both are good books also.
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 1999-02-04 22:00
The Bonade Clarinetist's Compendium is absolutely available. The Leblanc booth had stacks of them at the ClarinetFest last summer. I think there's nominal price - maybe $2 - but they gave away a lot of them. It's an excellent book, with lots of insightful and useful information. You can certainly order it from Leblanc - perhaps off their website.
The reed adjusting section is short but good. However, he wrote the book probably 50 years ago, so his advice on what to do with Vandoren reeds is out of date, at least regarding the left side usually being too stiff.
Reed adjusting is best learned from a teacher, who can see what you are doing and guide your hand. The adjustments can be very subtle, and it's a matter of getting the feel of doing it. By the way, there are some very good reed adjusting materials on Sneezy.
Plunge in. Be prepared to ruin a lot of reeds. It's worth it in the long run.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Lelia
Date: 1999-02-05 23:30
paul wrote:
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[snip]That's why I would prefer that the companies actually test play the reed before they package it. [snip] Now, if someone could come up with a cane reed sterilization technique that doesn't damage the reed's playing characteristics, I believe that person could make some really good money. Weak hydrogen peroxide has some merit when it comes to squeezing some extra life out of a tired reed. I can't vouch for this technique for sterilization. I don't personally know of any trick that verifies 99.99% sterilization (enough to satisfy US civil lawyers) without doing at least a little damage to a cane reed or making it taste really bad.
Unfortunately, right now I don't think there's a way to sterilize a cane reed that would leave it playable. Cold sterilization solutions only work on hard, smooth surfaces. (That's IF they work -- due to recent test results that cast doubt on the efficacy of cold sterilization solutions, some EPA Pesticides Div. people would like to require dentists to use only implements that can be autoclaved.) I feel comfortable using cold sterilization solutions on mouthpieces, but there's no way I'd play a reed that had been sopping up some unknown person's spit. Yuck. Lelia's Rule: If you wouldn't kiss him, don't play his reed!
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Author: Barry
Date: 1999-02-06 12:06
What about the radioactive pasteurization methods approved in the last few years for processing foods? Not something we'd want to do at home, but a company like VD sells enough reeds to amortize the installed cost and probably make the incremental cost of treatment negligible.
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Author: Kevin Bowman
Date: 1999-02-07 00:32
This whole idea of "play testing" reeds is a moot point. Every persons' mouth is different, requiring slightly different reed profiles. For example, my lower teeth are a bit crooked so my lower lip cannot lay "flat" against the reed. The right side of the reed naturally gets slightly more pressure. As a result, I ALWAYS have to shave a little off the left side of the reed (I use 600 grit sandpaper) to "balance" the reed. Other people have different anomolies. There's just NO WAY for a manufacturer to make a reed, or a whole bunch of reeds, that will be perfect for every player! Add to this the enormous variability in mouthpieces (there are hundreds of different types of mouthpieces).
There *are* consistent reeds out there. Standard Rico reeds are very consistent - they're made that way because they're made for beginners. But they are *cheap* - pricewise and quality wise. They're not supposed to last a long time (IMO). The better reeds are slightly inconsistent on purpose (as I think someone else pointed out earlier in this thread).
Reed-working is really not that hard. Double reed players learn to do it very early. I start teaching my students some of the techniques as soon as they are ready to graduate to anything stronger than a Rico V2. I show them how to prepare reeds (soak & rub down), rotate 4-6 reeds in
a case, and how to balance a reed by performing the rotation test. I also show them how to "balance" a reed on the lay of the mouthpiece by positioning it higher or lower or slightly to one side.
I think there are too many variables inherent in organic reeds to control the quality - and I'm not sure I'd want the quality controlled that tightly. What if they could control the quality and started producing *consistent* lots of reeds that were totally wrong for me? At least now I know there will be a certain percentage of reeds in the box that are immediatly playable (and can be made excellent with very little work) and the rest can be made playable with a little extra work.
So, I think what we need more than quality control for commercial reeds is better education for young clarinets.
Kevin Bowman
Clarinet and Saxophone Instructor,
Rochester Conservatory of Music, Rochester, MI
and
Saxophones, Clarinet, and Keys,
B-Side Blues Project
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Author: Hiroshi
Date: 1999-02-08 04:19
A reed manufacturer Riggoti boasts that their hardeness standards are quite rigorous.For example,hardness 3.5 is divided into 3.5 light,3.5 medium,and 3.5 hard.They recommend to purchase 3 boxes(l,m,h) at the first try and choose one hardness level as your reference preference.Sorry to say I never used this brand.Only FYI. Another choice is Zonda.I tried and found very consistent as hardness.But their heels are quite big,larger than V-12 and cane density seems thicker than V-12.Profile are just like as MORRE or V-12.Needs rigid diaphragm support and power.This seems really reeds for proffessionals.There seems some people,skilled players,who are very fond of this brand but do not like too many other people choose them,since this brand,using Andess cane,produces not so much amount per year by my guess.
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Author: Hiroshi
Date: 1999-02-08 04:23
A reed manufacturer Riggoti boasts that their hardeness standards are quite rigorous.For example,hardness 3.5 is divided into 3.5 light,3.5 medium,and 3.5 hard.They recommend to purchase 3 boxes(l,m,h) at the first try and choose one hardness level as your reference preference.Sorry to say I never used this brand.Only FYI. Another choice is Zonda.I tried and found very consistent as hardness.But their heels are quite big,larger than V-12 and cane density seems thicker than V-12.Profile are just like as MORRE or V-12.Needs rigid diaphragm support and power.This seems really reeds for proffessionals.There seems some people,skilled players,who are very fond of this brand but do not like too many other people choose them,since this brand,using Andess cane,produces not so much amount per year by my guess.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 1999-02-08 11:44
Hiroshi wrote:
-------------------------------
Another choice is Zonda.I tried and found very consistent as hardness.But their heels are quite big,larger than V-12 and cane density seems thicker than V-12.Profile are just like as MORRE or V-12.Needs rigid diaphragm support and power.This seems really reeds for proffessionals.There seems some people,skilled players,who are very fond of this brand but do not like too many other people choose them,since this brand,using Andess cane,produces not so much amount per year by my guess.
----
Hiroshi-
To use a colloquialism - "What a crock!". To think that some "professional" players would say this! That's not professional at all, and I'm sure Zonda would like to see <b>more</b> people using their reeds.
I've tried Zondas, but they're not for me for some reason. None ever sounded good when I played them. Other people sing their praises. Go figure :^)
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2006-10-23 13:55
Is it just me or does Legere reeds feel like they don't vibrate much? Beside that they are missing some overtones you get with cane reeds they seem to make your tone straight and quite ded. I needed only one round listening to the test they have on their homepage and I could tell which was cane and which was legere in seconds.
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Author: sherman
Date: 2006-10-23 16:46
If one is searching for the Holy Grail, it is my feeling that one can find it only by creating it, for most certainly it differs for each of us.
Making one's own reeds takes a bit of time,and a few tools and more than anything, good cane, for which you must find a reliable source.
There was quite a nice comment about the sound and feel of cane on this site, which is quite correct. It cannot be duplicated by plastic. The Legere reeds all play, but they sound and feel strange almost from the beginning. They have also other "cuts", the Quebec cut, which has a deeper sound, not as bright, or "brittle" as I have heard the term used many times. But they last a shorter time and begin to change almost from the first or second day....and that begins to sound like any cane reed, however the cane sound is superior from day one.
The reed you make yourself will be more difficult to make prior to getting what you want, but when you do and, you will, you will find the reed will last exponentially longer than any commercial product. With three or a half dozen of these, you can play and practice and perform for a year or more, and be making more at the same time. It really is the classic win-win situation. Make your own.
best, always.
Sherman Friedland
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2006-10-23 23:38
I am getting superb results with #3 Legere Quebec reeds on a Grabner K14 mouthpiece. For whatever reasons, I don't like the regular Legere soprano clarinet reed. Its tonal qualities bother me. It's probably a matter of personal preference. On the other hand, the Quebec really sings for me. Whenever I dust off my favorite cane reeds and compare them with Quebec I always quickly go back to Quebec. I really love the sound and performance qualities of these reeds. I also use #3 or #3.25 Quebec reeds on C clarinet with a Morgan RM10 mouthpiece. Wonderful sound, intonation, and response. Finally, I get equally good results with Legere on bass clarinet and tenor saxophone.
If I encounter a Legere reed that's a touch stuffy I use the ATG Reed Finishing System to make a subtle adjustment to the reed tip. The reed then really opens up and plays beautifully.
I've been using Legere reeds for more than a year and I continue to be happy with them. I'm especially impressed with how beautifully they play on Walter Grabner mouthpieces. I've discovered that Legere reeds work well on some mouthpiece facings and not as well on others. This, I think, is an important observation. It's possible that some players may be down on Legere because the reeds do not work that well on their particular mouthpiece. I've had that experience myself. But, if they had an oppurtunity to hear how Legere reeds sound on a Grabner or another mouthpiece that is Legere reed-friendly they might have a different opinion about them. Just a personal theory!
Roger
Post Edited (2006-10-24 10:58)
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Author: bawa
Date: 2006-10-24 10:31
Sherman,
I knew many people made their own reeds fom blanks (I presume), but was not aware that they would last that much longer.
Certainly something to think about. Currently using Vandorens reeds resurfacer to personalise V12s. Just bought a pack of Rue Lepics to try out and the first one was great just out of the box, but that might be chance.
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Author: KristinVanHorn
Date: 2006-10-24 13:53
I have personally found the Legere reed to be pretty good, but not as responsive as a natural cane reed. Nothing I have found yet can beat natural cane for response, playability, and quality of tone.
Hey are these differences small between legere and cane. I mean would beginner notice?
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Author: Max S-D
Date: 2006-10-24 22:18
I used to be super-picky about reeds, but then I started practicing more. To me, it seems like good training to just play the first reed you slap onto your mouthpiece, if just for a little while. First of all, when I'm practicing scales in a practice room, if the reed is a little soft or buzzy, who cares? Save the good reeds for the good stuff, and put in your "dirty work" on the buzzy ones. If you keep trying out reeds in a practice session, you're throwing away lots of time that could be spent on other things. I've only just discovered this in the last week or two, and I've benefited enormously from it.
Of course, stuffy reeds are harder to deal with, so i try to do some adjustments to them. There are going to be some reeds that will never play, but ever since I got to college and have been buying my own reeds (never really thought too much about how much my dad was paying for these until now!), I've been trying to at least get some practice time out of each reed. So far, I've only had to throw one away, since I just couldn't "unstuff" it. Plus, it feels even nicer when you put on a good reed for those times when tone is "more critical."
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-10-24 22:53
Kristin,
for me, the Légère is the "safe bet" reed. When classic reed refuses "to do", I slap the Légère on. When I fail there too, it's time for a walk or a book. I call it my "determinator" reed. Never leave home without it.
--
Ben
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Author: chazman
Date: 2006-10-24 23:06
If you are truly looking for tight manufacturing controls and a product that is consistent time and time again I have found Fibracell reeds the way to go. The reeds today are even better than those early ones. Go check out there web page, there you will find technical info and strength comparison chart.
Just my two cents
Chuck
http://www.fibracell.com/
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2006-10-25 01:24
Kirstin,
I'd like to underscore what a positive difference the ATG Reed Finishing System can make with Legere reeds that don't quite do it for us right out of the box. For me, all it takes is a couple of light passes in the tip area -- the adjustment is shown in the ATG instruction book -- to make all the difference in the world. It's a very subtle adjustment....only a very small area of the tip is worked on. But, the reed then really opens up and comes to life.
Earlier tonight I started to play on a new Legere bass clarinet reed and it was a tad stuffy and unresponsive. So, three light passes with the ATG and the reed immediately sounded great. I was then completely happy with it.
I gave the same advise recently to a local bass clarinet buddy who sometimes has trouble with Legeres. He tried my method of adjustment with the ATG and raved about the results. It's all so simple.
Another thing about Legere is the exact placement of the reed tip on the mouthpiece's tip rail is critical. Legere is more sensative in this respect than cane. When I get the reed in exactly the right position the reed's sound, response, and performance are then in The Zone.
I need to stress that it took me a period of time to adjust to how Legeres play. Also, in my efforts to get good results with Legere I made some tweaks to my equipment (ie, mouthpiece facings and ligs) and discovered a few tricks of the trade in order to become really happy with Legere. Now, I have no desire to return to cane.
Here are my set ups:
Restored 1960 Couesnon Monopole Bb clarinet (w/rosewood bell), Walter Grabner K14 mouthpiece, #3 Legere Quebec reed, Vandoren Masters ligature.
Patricola C clarinet, Ralph Morgan RM10 mouthpiece, #3 or #3.25 Quebec, Masters lig.
Selmer bass clarinet, Grabner LB mouthpiece, #3 Legere, Masters lig.
1934 Buescher New Aristocrat tenor saxophone, custom made Ralph Morgan 6C mouthpiece, #2.5 Legere (regular cut), Masters lig.
Roger
Post Edited (2006-10-25 01:59)
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Author: sherman
Date: 2006-10-27 01:56
The comments are very interesting indeed, however if one must change his mouthpiece or any aspect of his playing in order to accomodate a reed, then the variables become simply overwhelming. Cane is variable, a defining aspect, so plastic is offered because it alleviates the problem of the variability of cane. But, if one has to change a mouthpiece or the facing thereof, then what is the advantage of plastic? Excuse me, synthetic.
Sherman Friedland
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2006-10-27 02:52
Sherman,
Most of my playing is in doubling situations. For years I have dreamed of a synthetic reed that would be close to a good quality cane reed....one that would make switching to another horn and finding a dried reed a thing of the past. When I discovered how good Legere reeds can sound I reevaluated the set up on each of my horns and experimented in various ways to get the best possible results with Legere. In effect, I built my set up around a reed...rather than the usual way of matching reeds to a particular mouthpiece. Frankly, if I didn't double as much as I do it's highly likely that I would not have gone through all of the effort that I did with Legere. Never the less, now that I've become settled with my set ups I'm extremely happy with the results and the consistancy that I'm getting with Legere on each of my horns.
In sharing my experience with Legere reeds I don't want to scare off anyone who might be interested in trying them. It's possible that Legere can work perfectly fine on one's existing equipment.
Roger
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Author: bbarner
Date: 2006-10-27 13:04
Regarding the Legeres--I was using 2.5 Hemkes and now use a Legere 2.5. The Legere is perhaps a bit softer than the Hemkes. But, I find that the placement of the lig causes variations in the perceived hardness of the Legere. If the lig is in the right place the Legere is hard enough. I think the tone is different than a cane reed. I good cane reed sounds better to me. However, since I am a saxophone player who doesn't play clarinet every day, having a reed that will be the same every time I play--even if I haven't touched it in a week and a half--is worth the trade off.
Bill Barner
http://www.billbarner.com
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Author: sherman
Date: 2006-10-27 16:05
It delights me to know of those who find Legere a good experience, and in the case of Mr. Aldridge, I agree most completely, for it makes total sense for a doubler. I guess I am always waiting for my entrance for the solo in the slow movement of Beethoven 4th Symphony, and because I am retired, my wait will be endless. Old clarinet-players just dry out. Legeres don't...but
stay well, all
Sherman Friedland
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The Clarinet Pages
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