 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Jacy
Date: 2002-03-02 14:10
In my school's concert band, we're pretty loosely sectioned: normally, Gr. 10s play 3rd, 11s play 2nd, and the Grade 12 and 13 (I'm in Canada, BTW) kids play 1st. There's no "sprinkling" of strong players, our section placing is pretty much just a lineup of best to worst. Even though I've been playing 1 1/2 years to everyone else's 4-7, I'm in Grade 10 and was placed ahead of 5 fellow 10s and a couple 11s who play 3rd to play 2nd with a bunch of really good Grade 11 players and play 2nd solos when needed.
There's 6 1sts, who are mostly very good musicians, but one Grade 12 in particular is, well, on the weak side. In Wind Ensemble, I was one of a few Gr. 10s in the entire ensemble and I played 3rd with the aforementioned weak 1st from band. After months of hearing her play next to me, I'm quite sure that I'm better than her...tone-wise and tecnhique-wise. I've played piano for 10 years and have a pretty good musical ear so I have a (decidedly) good ear. I'm not being ego-typical here, just starting a fact that I and others can attest to.
Here's the problem: We have a seat challenge system in place (anonymous tape testing), but no one seems to take advantage of it except the trumpet players (it seems as if they're seated differently every practice!). If I beat this girl in a challenge, everyone, including her, will know I instigated this, and because I'm already known by some as a rather competitive, "solo-hungry" type, this might seem conceited and pernicious of me. I'm somewhat concerned that this is a faux pas and the possibility of resentment from my peers for simply displaying my skills. The 2nds don't need me, they're amazing by themselves, and the challenge of playing 1st would make me a beter clarinetist. What should I do?
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Author: William
Date: 2002-03-02 14:19
Go for it--play by the rules and play your best, the auditioners will decide who really is best. Good Clarineting!!!
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Author: Brandon
Date: 2002-03-02 15:08
Challenge her. I remember just a few years ago when I was in high school we had the challenge system at my high school, which was a performing arts high school. The way it worked there was it was blind, but there was no tape. It was just like an audition. After having all of those challenges, playing for people became a lot easier, and trying out for state comps became a lot easier. I think that this would only make you better, as both myself and the people challenged became a lot better. Sometimes you have to be careful, as others may not like that level of competition.
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Author: C@p
Date: 2002-03-02 15:26
If you are concerned about the resulting peer pressure, why not ask your director to initiate the challenge as if it were the director's idea. In fact, I think there could be a strong sense of wisdom that it should be the director's idea on a somewhat regular basis.
From the director's point of views, a challenge with prior notice just might cause the other player to practice and become better, leaving you where you are, or perhaps cause a surprise when someone else leap frogs over both of you.
In any event, an instructor should be aware of the talent in the musical organization and have a reason for the placement of the players. In addition, he or she should have a basic sense of fair play to which you might be able to appeal.
You might even want to direct the director's attention to this thread.
Good luck
C@p
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Author: C@p
Date: 2002-03-02 15:26
If you are concerned about the resulting peer pressure, why not ask your director to initiate the challenge as if it were the director's idea. In fact, I think there could be a strong sense of wisdom that it should be the director's idea on a somewhat regular basis.
From the director's point of views, a challenge with prior notice just might cause the other player to practice and become better, leaving you where you are, or perhaps cause a surprise when someone else leap frogs over both of you.
In any event, an instructor should be aware of the talent in the musical organization and have a reason for the placement of the players. In addition, he or she should have a basic sense of fair play to which you might be able to appeal.
You might even want to direct the director's attention to this thread.
Good luck
C@p
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Author: Kim L.
Date: 2002-03-02 17:15
I'd stay where you are. You never what COULD happen and someone may do much better than you in an audition. This happened to me my senior of high school. I was complaining that a freshman was ahead of me and asked for an audition. The director auditioned the whole band, and instead of remaining second chair, or being bumped up to first, I was placed sixth. Be very careful what you do. Stay where you are. Remember that it is March and you have next year to prove yourself to your peers. Staying where you are shows professionalism too.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-03-02 17:24
Risky, risky, risky ... If you don't mind being alone most of the rest of your HS band career then by all means challenge ... but if you want to just "get along" then it'd be a bad idea. You're already "solo-hungry" and known for it ... and you've got 3 more years to be in that band. People can make your life miserable if they want ...
If you're as good as you think you are then perhaps you'll be encouraged to challenge by some of your stand mates and maybe the band director. That's something different altogether.
Personally, if I were in your position, I'd look for things to do/play outside the school system. Maybe find a good piano player and see if I could get some small outside gigs.
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Author: Sally Gardens
Date: 2002-03-03 01:48
I guess it depends on whether you care more about the approval of your peers or about making a grab for first chair. Only you can decide where your priorities lie.
Personally, I think it's stupid to be shamed for stretching to achieve a higher level -- the old "hammer in the peg that rises above the rest" mentality. If you're the kind of person to stand against the tide and willing to risk "standing alone" for a while, you might decide you want to be a "trailblazer" and set a precedent for someone other than a trumpet making use of the challenge system. Why hold yourself back just because some people have a problem with your ambition? Who benefits from that?
If you're a "solo-hungry" type, then aspire to be a soloist!
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Author: Sally Gardens
Date: 2002-03-03 01:52
By the way, as I understand it, the purpose of the challenge system is supposed to be to keep everyone on their toes and to discourage sliding into complacent mediocrity. If you know that someone might challenge you for your seat, it gives you incentive to keep practicing and not slack off. So it's not such a bad thing, though I always thought it was supposed to have some kind of limits, e.g., so you don't have the trumpet section reconfiguring itself three times a week.
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Author: Stephanie
Date: 2002-03-03 03:20
I kind of understand what you're going through except that I was the person that was challenged. When I was in 8th grade, I had beaten a Senior. Of course, she challenged, and I was really worried about what everyone would think of me if I beat her. I thought of forfeitting, but I decided against that. Anywayz, I ended up beating her in the challenge, but I both regretted it and enjoyed the 3rd chair position. I regretted it because she and the other people in the band thought that she should have been 3rd chair (I thought that too for a while; she had better tone but not technique). I was always paranoid that everyone hated me. But then I realized that they didn't. They actually kinda respected my competitiveness and ability (?). I began to enjoy my position after that realization. I loved playing beside some really good clarinets. I guess this decision depends on whether or not you are more concerned about people's opinion of you, which might not be what you think, or if your more concerned about what you think you deserve.
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Author: Anonymous
Date: 2002-03-04 18:54
I'm speaking from personal experience here.
As a freshman in my high school's top band you were automatically seeded last no matter how good you are. At the time I wanted to move up, and decided to challenge people because I felt that I was better than them. Needless to say it didn't make me too popular with those particular individuals. However, other people didn't seem to care too much, so the response you will get will vary.
The more I played though, I realized something that EVERY clarinetist should know. the second and third parts are VERY important, and in almost EVERY band I have played in, those parts do not have strong enough players. In some cases the second and third parts are even more DIFFICULT than the first part. You can still develop your playing on second and third part. it will give you a better appreciation for what goes on behind the scenes, and a better of idea of how you should blend your sound with theirs when you do move up to first part. Also when I really started to listen to what was going on, you will find that it's just beautiful how the second and third parts meld into everything else.
I'm sort of digressing here, but I feel that directors should consider using rotational seating when there is a number of talented players in a section. Place some of them in second and third parts so those important pieces don't get lost. Also give them a chance to play first so they don't feel like they're getting cheated out of opportunities.
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Author: LynnB
Date: 2002-03-04 23:09
You need to decide what's more important to you; pushing yourself to be better or getting along with your peers. Either way is OK but do what you want.
My experience was as a Freshman I came in and challenged the heck out of the clarinet section and ended up in 1st part that same year. Yes, some people were upset but at the time peer approval was not was I was looking for. I wanted to be better.
But a nice surprise was the next year, the other kids were happy that I pushed them to practice more. We ended up with year end awards for our section. So you never know what can happen if you follow your heart. You just don't have to be heartless about it.
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