 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Kim L.
Date: 2002-03-01 13:55
Hey Everybody!
I am considering doubling on saxophone. What is everybody's position on this? Is it a good idea? Should I go ahead with it? How quickly would I master the fingerings of the sax? How does the embouchure differ from the clarinet?
Thanks in advance!
Kim L.
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Author: Michael
Date: 2002-03-01 13:57
Fingering is simple, like playing in the upper register of clarinet.
Go for it otherwise you'll never know!
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Author: William
Date: 2002-03-01 14:57
The main difference that you will notice is in the embouchure, which on sax is more relaxed than on clarinet. If fact, too many clarinetists first switching to sax make the mistake of using "clarinet" pressure on the sax reed which results in "chocking" the sound and limiting tuning and expression. The good news is, that once you have mastered the fingerings on one sax, you will be able to transfer that knowledge to the rest of the sax family as they are all fingered the same. If you do decide to venture into the "World of Sax", I suggest you begin with the alto--for ease in handling and ease in tone production.
But be forewarned, being a clarinetist--even a pro-level artist--does not mean that being able to play the saxophone is a "given." You will need to give your "new" instrument equal practice time to your clarinet, or you will never really learn to play it well, but rather just "blow" it. My recommendation for a "learning sequence" would be: 1) alto 2) tenor 3) bari 4) soprano 5) bass (order of useful importance) And, each saxophone has it's own playing "feel" that you will have to master. Learning to play the saxophone--instead of just blowing it--may take years of co-practice with your clarinet, but many of us have "been there,done that" and have become very good a doubling. Some of us (myself included) have also become proficient on the flute and piccolo as well. It really all depends on how much time you have to pracice, what your performance prospects and needs are, and how determined you are to succeed in mastering the new set of skills that you will need. Not to mention money--saxophones are more expensive in comparrison to similar quality clarinets and you should own the instruments that you play. FYI--if I had all of the money that I have invested in my Buffets, LeBlancs and Selmers over the years just to be a "woodwind artist" I could probably buy a couple of new SUVs and a lifetime of gas to run them. But then again, all of my instruments still "run" and don't rust. And, they have been a lot of fun.
Bottom Line: In the end, it's all worth it. Doubling makes you more versitile as a "woodwind artist" (and in more demand as a musician) and can be a lot of fun. So, Good Clarineting, Saxophoneing and (maybe even) Fluteing. (drive your neighbors and their dogs crazy)
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Author: GBK
Date: 2002-03-01 16:32
Kim L...The good news: William has nicely outlined some of the important concepts of doubling (tripling) on saxophone. Read his post carefully and heed his advice.
The bad news: Mouthpiece selection is critical - get ready to try and retry (as with the clarinet) until you find the one that feels right. The final test is how you sound and the comfort level of the mouthpiece. The "One size does not fit all" theory is important with the saxophone.
There is much hype (probably more than on clarinet) as to equipment/mouthpiece brands and their pluses and minuses. Listen to what everyone says but don't take any info as the gospel. Try for yourself and do not be swayed by "brand envy"
As you get serious with the saxophone, many of us who perform and teach can give you suggestions as to what equipment seems to work well for our students and what does not. Don't be afraid to ask us -we will respond.
One final point - entry level saxophone prices have risen over the past decade (demand?). There are some reliable brands that may not be "household names". Again, do not be afraid to ask on this bulletin board - as there are many years of sax experience here to draw from. Good luck...GBK
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Author: mike
Date: 2002-03-01 16:53
" FYI--if I had all of the money that I have invested in my Buffets, LeBlancs and Selmers over the years just to be a "woodwind artist" I could probably buy a couple of new SUVs and a lifetime of gas to run them."
I don't know about that. I've often thought that if I could have all the money I've spent on musical instruments over the years, I'd probably go out and buy a bunch of musical instruments.
And this "lifetime of gas" thing worries me...
As for doubling, its really a question of what you want to do. If you're looking to play jazz or rock, then sax is much more widely used than clarinet. If you want to play musicals, you'll need all the doubles you can muster. While there is a growing classical literature for solo sax and sax quartets, its pretty small compared to the clarinet or flute literatures.
In addition to developing some proficiency on your doubles, which really means approaching them as if they're your main instrument for quite some time, you also need to develop the flexibility to switch among them quickly. Especially if you want to play shows. And this requires practicing the same way you play a show: things like 10 minutes of long, legato clarinet with hardly a place to breathe with a quick change to flute for a nice ppp solo starting on high F#...
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Author: Kim L.
Date: 2002-03-01 20:41
Thanks for your help so far everybody! You're all so helpful.
Kim L.
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Author: William
Date: 2002-03-02 03:10
Mike--to ease your worries, I should have typed, "lifetime SUPPLY of gas to run them." OK--back to my "long tones." WF
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Author: Melanie
Date: 2002-03-02 06:21
Although doubling is great, you must be careful not to become mediocre at everything (unless that's what you want). I started doubling in high school, and then continued through a community college. I would go through periods where I would only play one or the other (or flute or bassoon), and not practice my major instrument. I found that when I transfered to a university, I was a pretty good clarinetist and a decent saxophonist, but I was not as strong as I should have been in either area. All in all, doubling is worth while, because you learn to have a versatile emboucher (which helps for playing other clarinets) and it can really add to your enjoyment. Just be careful not to turn away from specializing. Good luck!
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Author: allencole
Date: 2002-03-02 08:06
As a clarinetist, you are in a good position to double. A recent interview with in Windplayer with LA studio doublers shows that many of the most versatile doublers started on clarinet, went on to sax, and then to flute.
Coming from the clarinet, you'll find the saxophone very easy to finger. There are no alternating pinkies to worry about, and the articulated G# (operable by ALL spatula keys) is a godsend.
Sound production and intonation are more challenging, however, and you will have to truly embrace the instrument if you want to be a really good player. I agree with starting on Alto. It has the greatest demand for quality tone, and a tighter embouchure than tenor or bari. (Like William, I see no reason to look at Soprano until you've worked on alto, tenor and bari)
While the clarinet and sax are often thought of as close relatives with many similarities, it is better for you to think of them as very separate instruments which are opposites in many ways. Your sax embouchure is going to involve a more open jaw, and more lower lip padding than you are used to with the clarinet. Also, some brands of sax are very free blowing, and will require vigilant breath support to maintain stability.
Fingering is deceptively easy at first. I recommend that you work slowly on the high Eb, E and F scales early on to get a basic familiarity with your palm keys. These are the most frequent speed bump for new players. Your low octave of B scale will represent one of the most difficult maneuvers on your spatula keys. Master these things early, so that they do not detract of the ease of fingering in the range between the C's.
For a first sax, there are some terrific deals on Yamaha's YAS-62 alto these days. Yamaha must be dumping it on the market. Several of my students have bought new ones from an Australian vendor via Ebay for prices in the $1400-1600 range. This is a pro model instrument which plays beautifully, has good tuning, and a screw adjustment for almost everything. They generally run for around $2400 from the Woodwind, and I don't know why so many are available so cheap right now. It is a good opportunity, though. I also love Yamaha baritones and sopranos.
As Mike pointed out, you are going to have to spend some time treating the sax as your primary instrument until you get up to speed. I recommend practicing with an electronic tuner. You can check it on your longer notes to see if you're in the neighborhood. Once you're up to speed, you can do most of your technical practice on the clarinet and much of it will apply to the sax. A good way to keep your embouchure straight is to practice both instruments, changing horns every 5 or 10 minutes.
Once you get a good sax embouchure, you may find your clarinet embouchure degraded. The vast majority of my employment as a player is on tenor sax, and I only get to play significant amounts of clarinet when I have a pit gig for a show. I do two things to help this. 1) I play clarinet in a couple of local community bands. It really helps keep my chops up. 2) I make clarinet my primary instrument for practicing, and 3) When playing primarily as a saxman in an R&B or Big Band situation, I generally join my colleagues in using a slightly softer clarinet reed (frequently a Legere) and a shorter barrel (usually the ClickBarrel). Many of these guys are also clarinet players, but it's hard to play clarinet up to pitch for 16 bars when you've been honking on a tenor for the last half hour.
Doubling is a good route to go, if you're willing to put in the practice. I would recommend it to anyone.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-03-02 11:31
Heaps of info on
http://listen.to/saxophone/
and
http://forum.saxontheweb.net/
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-03-03 10:11
With the sax, bunch your lip up (in FRONT of your bottom teeth before laying the reed on it, so that the resulting thickness of the lower lip 'cushion' is much thicker (from front to back) than with clarinet. The lip is more in front of the teeth than over them.
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Author: Swing Band Queen Katai Katai
Date: 2002-04-07 05:02
When I switched to sax, it came as a bit of a shock that the mouthpience was so big. It's a lot wider, and it takes a bit of getting used to. Back when I had the alto, I was pleasantly surprised by several things, however.Since it goes up exactly one ocave with the octave key, that makes it simpler, fingering is mainly like the upper clarinet register. There's no big fuss between going rapidly back and forth between octaves either. In many aspects, it's really quite simple. Just try not to wind up with a broken sax for starters like I did. You'll realize that your clarinet embrochure may suffer a bit from the change. Also, in the big saxes, you really have to get a good hold on the mouthpiece and blow like you've never blown before when first attempting low notes(like the low low c on tenor. That took a few months before it came out easy). Plus the neckstrap gets really annoying! But really, you should have no problems at all with a sax. I would suggest starting on alto, since it worked for me. From there, if you want to go further, you can go on to tenor, and then more difficult saxes.
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