 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Cindy
Date: 2002-03-01 00:43
Is it really hard to go from Bb to Eb clarinet? I have an opportunity to try it out, and I want to know about it before I actually play. I know you have to get new reeds, but do you have to play a different way, or do anything differently? What are some major differences between Eb and Bb clarinet, other than the Eb being smaller?
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Author: diz
Date: 2002-03-01 02:16
no - not at all, they're cheeky little devils and require a considerable amount of patience - but they're fun.
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Author: jez
Date: 2002-03-01 12:51
Don't be persuaded by anyone that the E flat is a harder instrument. It's still just a clarinet after all. Try to aim for a beautiful sound, just as you do on the B flat.
The main difference is in the way it is used, obviously when composers write for it they tend to use it high up, otherwise they'd stick with the B flat. You need to have good control of the top octave, but you can help that by working on that area on the B flat just as much. The temptation is to use a much harder reed/mp. set-up and blow hard, but I believe that is best avoided.
To digress slightly, (we're good at that)
I like to refer to it as the Piccolo clarinet (in E flat) as most orchestral parts are marked, to avoid confusion with altos and contras. Am I just being pedantic again?
jez
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Author: William
Date: 2002-03-01 15:09
Also, you will need an Eb mouthpiece (slightly smaller than the Bb) but you should be able to use Bb reeds if you chop some of the base off. FYI--there are a couple of LeBlanc LL's for sale on eBay, as I type, that may be of interest to you. Effers are fun to play--Good Clarineting!!!!
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Author: James
Date: 2002-03-01 20:59
Eb, don't we all love it? I'm getting the oportunity to play berlioz symphony fantastique. I know from my expierence playing it that there really isn't much of a difference to playing Eb clarinet and Bb. You get used to the change, but really the only change is everything is smaller meaning that you take in less mouthpiece, fingers close together. I'm not sure if you have any interest in actually buying an Eb but i would seriously disagree with Williams advice on buying a LL off ebay. You want a Buffet or Leblanc. The goal is usually to try to match whatever you have for Bb and A. Like if you use R13's get an Eb R13. Try to match mouthpieces and stuff while you are at it too. That make the change that much easier too. Good luck!
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Author: Micaela
Date: 2002-03-01 22:53
Bring a tuner and prepare for battle. Taming the eefer involves a lot of intonation adjustment.
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Author: Kim
Date: 2002-03-02 17:39
Well, I think that the Eb is definitely a different animal from the Bb. It requires a much more highly developed ear/sense of intonation, because the instrument is so inherently out of tune with itself. You constantly have to compensate for this. Also, very few of the altissimo fingerings that work on Bb work well on Eb, so there are a lot of new fingerings to learn. It also takes a much more compact, firm embochure.
Make sure that you get a reed that's hard enough. Otherwise, you'll be sure to be flat as a pancake in the altissimo register.
I do encourage you to give it a shot. When tamed, playing the little beast can be a lot of fun. A lot of times composers write parts for the instrument that are supposed to sound pretty raunchy. Since most of us would never DARE play the clarinet in that manner, it's a great way to let go of some inhibitions.
Kim
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Author: jez
Date: 2002-03-02 22:41
I'm afraid Kim gives us an excellent example of the things I wanted to warn you about.
Kim,
If your E flat is "inherently out of tune with itself" I suggest you get a good one.
If "very few of the altissimo fingerings that work on the B flat work well" then if you still find that when you've got a good one I suggest you learn some other fingerings on the B flat.
If you think that using a harder reed is an acceptable way to approach altissimo intonation then I suggest you talk to your teacher.
There certainly are some pretty raunchy solos, but also some very beautiful ones. You don't want Bolero to sound like it's being played by a "little beast"
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Author: Kim
Date: 2002-03-03 01:04
Thanks for the advice, Jez, but I'm no longer in school studying with a 'teacher', and I do own a 'good' E-flat. I happen to make my living playing professionally, and I've performed on E-flat with professional orchestras of every size (regional-major), so I do have an idea of what I'm talking about. It really isn't good to make assumptions about the people that you're talking to.
What I was referring to in regards to pitch is that even the best E-flat clarinets simply are not as in tune with themselves as the majority of B-flat clarinets. (And I'm referring to top-of-the line horns. I have no clue about anything else, but I would guess that the discrepancy would only get worse as one gets into student-model horns.) As a result, one just has to work harder at the pitch thing. I'm not saying that it's impossible to play the thing in tune. It just takes more work.
The Peter Hadcock Excerpt book has a lot of great fingerings for the altissimo register. Interestingly enough, he didn't seem to be able to make the altissimo Bb fingerings play in tune on the Eb either.
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2002-03-03 15:44
I agree with Kim that you have to work for quite some time to be able to play Eb on a professinal level. It's more work than what you have to do on a Bb in order to achieve the same result. Once you've done the hard work once it's not so difficult to maintain, but you have to go through the hard bit once.
Alphie
Clarinet/ Eb-clarinet
RSPhO
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Author: jez
Date: 2002-03-04 00:39
Kim,
My point is that here we have Cindy, a young player asking about moving on to the E flat. It seems a shame to be so negative about it and let her start off with expectations of failure or reduced standards. What is she supposed to think when you say you are a professional player who owns a "good" instrument, but accepts the fact that it is "not as in tune with itself" as it should be.
As a point of interest I'm always concerned about people who think they've got an 'in-tune' clarinet. Apart from the inherent compromises in the design I would refer you to my recent posting entitled 'tuning'
You're welcome to the advice, by the way, and there's plenty more. You only have to ask.
Good luck
jez
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Author: Kim
Date: 2002-03-04 04:04
Jez,
I doubt that Cindy is so fragile that she must be protected from the 'facts' about the Eb. After all, she WAS asking for information. As for me discouraging her, perhaps you should re-read the last paragraph of my initial reply.
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Author: Cindy
Date: 2002-03-04 04:42
whoah! I didn't mean to start a war! I think everyone has given me very good advice, and am greatful for both the cushioning and the hard cold facts I am getting. So, thanks everyone, but we don't need to kill eachother over how to break it to me that its difficult to learn!
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Author: Kim
Date: 2002-03-04 19:05
There are no wars going on here. Just some spirited disagreement, which there's nothing wrong with. Think how boring the world would be if we all had the same point of view!
Anyay, good luck with the little beast.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2002-03-05 05:03
For those of you who don't have the Hadcock book, I want to point out that Hadcock does not have a special fingering chart for the Eb clarinet. Rather he provides fingering recommendations for excerpts from many important passages for the Eb. I don't remember now if I checked all of these fingerings but, when I first got my copy, I checked many of them against the fingerings in Tom Ridenour's book. As I recall, every one I checked from Hadcock's book was right there in Ridenour's and many agreed with his recommendations as "best fingerings" for Bb. Usually, the ones that didn't were "false" fingerings for rapid passage work and were the same fingerings I would likely try to use if I had to play the passage on Bb. On the other hand, I don't see Hadcock recommending these false fingerings for general use. I find nothing in his book to suggest that he had trouble playing in tune with the regular fingerings but perhaps someone can point to some specific examples that I overlooked. IMHO, the claim that I have seen here (and before) that the Eb requires practically a whole new set of fingerings in altissimo to play in tune, is (as Jez suggests) overstated. For the most part, the "normal" Bb fingerings work fine for me and where they don't, the fingerings that give improvement are usually fingerings recommended by Ridenour as having particularly good intonation. There may be a few fingerings that work better on some Eb's than they do on Bb but there are some fingerings that work better on Yamaha or Selmer Bb clarinets than they do on Buffets, too.
While I am inclined to agree, based on a very limited sample, that the Eb requires more effort at voicing to play in tune, particularly in the altissimo, I don't necessarily agree that it requires a better ear. Playing any wind instrument in tune requires a good ear. What the Eb does require, however, is a good ear in the altissimo (where notes are sometimes more difficult to distinguish) because most good composers don't bother with an Eb unless they want to exploit notes outside the normal range of the "normal" soprano. Translation: If you don't like to live in the ledger lines, an Eb is not for you. ;^)
Considering the difference in size and bore and the liklihood that most mouthpiece makers try to tailor their mouthpieces to the instrument at hand rather than try for a consistent feel from one size to another (which is probably impossible to achieve anyway), I wouldn't worry too much about trying to use the same model Eb clarinet and mouthpiece as I use for Bb. IMHO, one is better served by keeping an open mind and searching for the combination that works best. (But my bias is that, aside perhaps from a similar feel to the keywork, there is really no particular benefit to playing the same make and model A and Bb clarinets, either.)
Because of its smaller bore, the Eb has more inherent back pressure. There is probably a natural tendency to try to compensate for this by using a less resistant reed/mouthpiece combination. While I don't think it is necessary to use an extra hard reed with an Eb, I do think it's possible that one might overcompensate and wind up using reeds that are too soft. With Eb as with any other clarinet, the closer the mouthpiece and the longer the facing, the harder the reed one must use. Also because of its smaller size, the Eb may be more difficult to play in tune because it is more sensitive to slight changes in embouchure, breath support, etc. so one must concentrate and stay alert constantly.
As far as transferrability is concerned, my experience is that the Eb is alot like the saxophone. If you can play clarinet reasonably well, you can pick one up and, with a couple of hours effort, be able to play it passably. Playing it well, however, takes considerably more effort.
My $.02, best regards,
jnk
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