 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Laura
Date: 2002-03-01 19:18
Picking a college is annoying - almost as bad as trying to lookd for a guy that I like. Anyway, I want to play my clarinet professionally, but my parents are against it. So, for a compromise, I am looking for a school that has a really good clarinet department and a decent English department - the one that I have found is Indiana U at Bloomington. The problem is, that is the only one I found that was really good, and I am beginning to wonder - how much does your undergraduate training count? Could I go to Rice for undergrad and then one the four listed above for graduate, without really affecting my chances for admission into one of the graduate schools or a professional orchestra? The thing is, I have heard that if you want to be really good, you have to go to one of those four, and I was wondering whether there was a difference if I went to one of them for grad and undergrad, as opposed to just grad.
I am probably not getting my problem across very well...I will answer all questions, and attempt to clarify it.
Laura
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-03-01 19:24
And of course Rice has the famous Shepherd School of Music (Mike Webster teaches clarinet there).
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Author: Aaron
Date: 2002-03-01 20:54
one word of advice.....look not only at the school, but at the teacher you will be studying with.
The school is part of the picture, but your teacher is the most importnt part. I have a few friends that went to Rice for their undergrad and one of them left because they didn't get along with their teacher. It was a major personallity clash, and no learning really took place. She is now at another school and is doing well.
If your wanting to play ing an orchestra someday I would though definately look at Rice, Ther are more orchestral players comming out of Rice at the moment than most other universitys in the country.
New England Conservatory, Boston Conservatory, Mannes, Julliard are the big places to go. BUT also they have great teachers to learn from. The teachers produce great students as well as knowing alot of people in the professinal community.
Just as in any profession, it sometimes comes down to WHo you know, not WHAT you know. it's not always the case, but friends help.
So pick a school that is going to give you the best experiences and where you'll be able to lesarn from a great teacher.
Undergrad school isn't very important, but for your career path, at least pick a school that has a good reputation and a history of putting out good clarinetists. Such as the ones I listed above.
BUT DON'T GO TO A SCHOOL JUST FOR A NAME!!!!! for goodness sakes. Go somewhere where you'll get the education you'll need, not somewhere where it will just look good on a resume. in the end it all comes down to how YOU play and perform, not how well your school performs. I'm a good example of that.
I went to a State College for my undergraduate education, and a school that isn't all that wonderful in the music world. However now I'm playing clarinet all over the area and have been accepted at schools from Colorado to Boston.
Take my word. It's not the school you go to. It's your ability, potential, and training. The school is not too important in the equasion.
Aaron
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-03-01 21:10
I think in this case (at least as I read it) it's the college's academic placement that matters the most, not the music school (assuming that one can even <b>get</b> into the music school as a non-major). Conservatories are pretty much out.
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Author: HAT
Date: 2002-03-01 21:26
Let me correct a few things.
Where you choose to do your undergraduate studies is very important. You can't get those four years back. If you really do want to play for a living, it is mandatory that you spend those four years with the right teacher. . .wherever he/she teaches.
Plenty of music majors go on to study other things in graduate school and do so at fine schools. There's little 'risk' in getting a music degree in terms of doing something else.
On the other hand, if you don't get done what you need to get done on the clarinet in undergraduate school, it's almost impossible to catch up by the time you finish your master's degree.
Again, look at the track record for PLAYING (not teaching jobs).
DePaul (Combs)
USC (Gilad)
These are non-conservatories placing folks in playing jobs (not a high percentage, but at least they are placing SOME. . .no school places a huge percentage).
In any case, I think you'll find that most music majors are a hell of a lot smarter than english majors no matter WHERE you go. Tell your parents that.
David Hattner, NYC
www.northbranchrecords.com
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Author: Micaela
Date: 2002-03-01 22:37
What about Oberlin? They have pretty good academics and a conservatory (and I think I'm probably going to audition there in about a year). But you don't have to listen to me at all (see below).
Don't listen to "what I hear" about what it takes to be really good. Go with what you believe will work for you the best- it's your education. People are probably giving you way too much advice. I mean, I took the PSATs in October and no fewer than 26 colleges sent me mail just in the last FIVE DAYS all claiming that their campus was the best place for me. Every person remotely related to me and many people of no relation have offered me their opinions (my aunt just knows I'll love Swarthmore, my history teacher wants Yale, you know). Listen to yourself- it's too important a decision to base on other people's opinions.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-03-01 22:44
HAT wrote:
> In any case, I think you'll find that most music majors are a
> hell of a lot smarter than english majors no matter WHERE you
> go. Tell your parents that.
I'd say that you have no real idea about that ... just a guess. In general when I've hired people I've found English majors to be academically better than music majors.
As a parent it'd have to be a heck of a lot more detailed than just your say-so.
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Author: leo
Date: 2002-03-02 01:20
hi laura:
consider columbia college, the undergraduate liberal arts school of columbia university. (www.columbia.edu) it's located in nyc. it has an affiliated program with juliard school of music. it is ivy league, has a great general education program. it is located on "broadway" and not that far from lincoln center and carnegie hall. the college has a music major program. it's alumni include rogers, hammerstein, hart, neil simon, pat boone, and on and on and on.
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Author: Larry Liberson
Date: 2002-03-02 03:36
Leo said "consider columbia college...it's alumni include rogers, hammerstein, hart, neil simon, pat boone, and on and on and on."
None of whom played or taught the clarinet, I believe.....although it is a great university, for sure.
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Author: Amanda Rose
Date: 2002-03-02 03:55
I don't think it's necessary to go to a big name school--especially for undergrad. I'm going to one of two state schools in the state that I live in next year and I'm sure I'll be happy. Why? The teachers!!!!!!!! And the thing about going to a HUGE school like Yale or Northwestern for undergrad... you don't get the playing opportunities unless you're a phenom because you'll get swallowed up by the grad students.
I'm going to a big school for grad. I know that. :o)
Anyway, I just wanted to put in my ideas and advice.
Amanda Rose
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Author: Katie
Date: 2002-03-02 04:42
I agree with HAT 100%. I think when people think that undergraduate studies are not as important as graduate, they are fooling themselves. To get into competitive grad schools, one must remember that you are competing against many students from various university programs AS WELL AS those students who went to other highly competitive music schools/conservatories. Your suggestion for DePaul, HAT, I also agree with strongly, however, freshman students are never usually considered for studying with Larry Combs. I just wanted to clarify that. Julie DeRoche teaches freshmen students (and quite well, so I hear).
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Author: HAT
Date: 2002-03-02 14:47
To paraprhase Kurt Vonnegut (Don't have the book in front of me for a quote):
The stupidest people at any university are the education majors, closely followed by the english majors.The smartest are the music majors.
My experiences at school and in life have been that (good) musicians are much smarter than the average person. Can't say about bad musicians.
A few other things:
As far as I know, Yale does not have music performance for undergraduate studies.
In a situation like DePaul where there is more than one teacher, it is wise to try to get a committment from one particular teacher before deciding to attend. In any case, it is not just the teacher at some schools that make them desirable, it is also the quality of the other students who will be your colleagues. You can learn a lot from them as well.DePaul has a pile of very good clarinet players walking the halls.
If you want advice on 'what it takes' to play professionally, go ahead and take whatever advice you think will help. But it seems to me to be wise to listen to those who do play professionally. They got there somehow.
The main thing it 'takes,' is a willingness to spend more hours than it is possible to count sitting by yourself in a small room with your clarinet, a metronome and a lot of patience. If you can't imagine doing that 3+ hours every day for your entire undergraduate existance, you're most likely not cut out to play professionally.
David Hattner, NYC
www.northbranchrecords.com
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Author: Kim
Date: 2002-03-02 18:26
I agree with Hat. If you want to play professionally, you have to take advice from those who make their living playing the clarinet professionally, period. No one else truely knows what it takes.
By the way, it is so incredibly difficult to become a professional clarinetist/get an orchestra job, that my advice to you would be to NOT do a double major. Most people that major in clarinet performance don't wind up playing professionally in any capacity. My opinion is that your goal is a big enough challenge if you focus on it exclusively. Spreading yourself too thin / in to many directions will just make success even more difficult.
And I do think that Oberlin is a pretty good choice, especially now that Richard Hawkins is teaching there. Of the schools mentioned above, USC has the best track record of students getting jobs that I'm aware of.
I hope I was helpful.
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Author: Micaela
Date: 2002-03-02 19:23
HAT- Yale does have a music major (it's near the top of my college list currently and I'm visiting in April).
I visited Columbia over February break. I'm not going to apply there for several reasons but one of them is that there are a lot of required courses (not required for your major, required for everyone). They have a large variety of music courses but you'd be taking a lot of other courses too (I don't mind other courses, I just want to choose my own path more). However, if you pass an audition you can take private lessons at the Manhattan School of Music.
As a warning, they're both VERY difficult to get into.
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Author: Katie
Date: 2002-03-02 22:08
I was under the impression that Yale did not offer an undergraduate degree specifically in music performance. They do not even audition undergrads. They do for grad students.
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Author: Micaela
Date: 2002-03-03 00:22
Katie- I'm sorry, I could have been clearer. You're right.
http://www.yale.edu/yalemus/dept/programs/undergrad/undergrad.htm
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Author: Ginny
Date: 2002-03-03 00:50
If you poke around this website you can cross reference rankings and majors and weird interest. We've been looking for good marching band for a dual clarinet and physics major. In a while though, any suggestions there? USC came up.
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/alpha_dir/dir_u.htm
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Author: Laura
Date: 2002-03-03 19:33
One question - USC as in University of Southern California, or USC as in U of South Carolina? the Southern California one is in Watts - a really bad part of LA - so I couldn't go there...
Thank You!
Laura
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Author: Kim
Date: 2002-03-03 19:49
It's University of Southern California. Yehuda Gilad teaches there. Good luck!
Kim
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Author: danny
Date: 2002-03-03 23:24
what about places not in the US? where is considered good in Europe?
d
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