 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Elenna
Date: 2002-02-19 08:21
I have recently come across some information about the "Soprano Clarinet" by Moeck, which is designed for use by young children. The instrument is in C, and has 2 keys. Has anyone played one, or used one in teaching? Many of my young students find that the Bb clarinet is too big for them. I am a keen period clarinet player, and I love the idea of starting children off on period style clarinets.
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Author: A David Peacham
Date: 2002-02-19 08:53
According to the Moeck site:
(1) It is "sounding in C, transposing in G". I think that means that the fundamental scale of the lower register is concert C. This is different from a C clarinet, whose fundamental scale in the lower register is concert F. In other words, this is a G clarinet, a semitone below the tiny Ab clarinet.
(2) 3 brass keys (not two). Presumably (I'm guessing) these would be the register key, A throat key, and a B/E key for the left little finger.
(3) It is "no larger than a soprano recorder". That's roughly consistent with the pitch I suggest above.
I have never seen nor heard one of these instruments. My guess, however, is that a clarinet that small would sound pretty squeaky and would be a pig to play in tune.
The Lyons clarinet, which is a true C clarinet with simplified Boehm keywork, might be a better bet. It is supposed to be suitable from about age seven.
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Author: jez
Date: 2002-02-19 09:34
If hands are too small for a B flat clar. why not start children off on an E flat? No trouble converting to something different later on.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-02-19 12:26
1) Because the average Eb is horribly expensive as a starter instrument
2) The Eb is significantly harder to control.
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Author: jez
Date: 2002-02-19 12:46
If people bought them in sufficient quantities the availability would soon go up and the price down. The manufacturers have to cater for market trends.
The E flat (about two thirds normal size) in the hands of a small person would be no more difficult to control. Are they not made proportionately in all dimensions? Why does the E flat have this reputation for being more difficult. I think it's awkward for people with bigger hands, but otherwise people only think it's harder because they're constantly told so.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-02-19 13:05
Well, I know <b>I</b> have a harder time with intonation and maintaining a proper embouchure on an Eb. Perhaps I'm assuming that everyone has similar problems.
As to the price - how do you get over the initial hump? We're not going to get enough "rich" parents to start the ball rolling by buying them in quantity at the current high prices, and there's no guarantee that the manufacturers would lower the price anyway ... the demand would be for 100s if not 1000s for some period of time ...
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Author: jez
Date: 2002-02-19 13:31
Perhaps some organised group of clarinettists could put pressure on the manufacturers to produce a student model E flat at a reasonable price to see how the idea catches on. I suggest Sneezy!
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2002-02-19 13:47
I see the future, and it is not pleasing... a Chinese factory operating day in and day out, whipping out Eb clarinets for the US elementary school market... smiling clerks who wouldn't know a Clarinet from a bassinet explainig to parents how the lease plan works... eBay flooded with sub-marginal Eb clarinets, most auction titles starting with the word "Nice," sellers bragging that they have the genuine all-zinc keys... not a pretty sight.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2002-02-19 15:38
The Kinder Klarinet sold by WW&BW and others is an Eb clarinet designed to be playable by young children. I suspect the reason the eefer is harder to control for someone who mostly plays Bb is the smaller bore, which makes it more resistant, and the greater sensitivity to adjustments in embouchure (it seems to me that a "1% change" on the eefer has greater effect than a 1% change on a Bb). In the range a child would likely play for the first couple of years, I think the resistance problem could likely be mitigated with a low-resistance mouthpiece and soft reeds (but search the Klarinet archives for opposite views). When my daughter was younger and had been taking clarinet (on a Bb) for a very short time, I let her try my eefer with a soft reed. She found it no more difficult to produce a tone on than her Bb and could play easily throughout her entire limited range.
As far as price is concerned, both Selmer U.S.A. and Leblanc (Vito) make plastic student Eb clarinets. (I couldn't raise Yamaha's web site. They may also make a plastic one.) The price is undoubtedly higher than their comparable Bb models but probably not more than a couple hundred dollars, if that much. At least there is no need to purchase a professional instrument to start on.
On eBay, plastic Bundy's show up periodically. As I recall, they tend to sell for around $300. I have only seen one Vito and I didn't check its final price.
If you want to start the kids on a simpler system, there is another maker in Germany, Guntram Wolf, who makes a couple of children's clarinets. See:
<www.guntramwolf.de>
for information. Also search this bulletin board for "Guntram Wolf" without the quotes to find an earlier thread on this topic.
Finally, there is a seller on eBay who has 13-key and 14-key plastic clarinets from India in a variety of keys, including Eb. As far as I have been able to determine, they are absolute total complete junk. Still, the last time I checked, they were selling for around $50 + $25 shipping and might work for an absolute beginner/small child who would only be giving them light use. (Can it be? Am I actually recommending one of these? ...........Nah! Just temporary insanity. Sorry.)
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: werner
Date: 2002-02-19 16:39
>I have never seen nor heard one of these instruments. My guess, >however, is that a clarinet that small would sound pretty squeaky >and would be a pig to play in tune.
Exactly David.
I had on of those between my fingers and played it.
I was very disappointed. A used Eb or C clarinet
is a better choice to teach children in my opinion.
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2002-02-19 17:05
Jack Kissinger -- evidently overcome by the vapors -- wrote, among other things:
>Finally, there is a seller on eBay who has 13-key and 14-key plastic clarinets from India in
> a variety of keys, including Eb. As far as I have been able to determine, they are absolute
> total complete junk. Still, the last time I checked, they were selling for around $50 + $25
> shipping and might work for an absolute beginner/small child who would only be giving them
> light use. (Can it be? Am I actually recommending one of these? ...........Nah! Just
> temporary insanity. Sorry.)
Jack, your earlier determination is rather accurate, unless one happens to be an interior decorator. These instruments are truly somewhat attractive from a distance of at least one meter, and if they could be at all expected to function -- why, that would be very nice, wouldn't it? However, "don't bet on it" could hardly be improved upon as a suggestion regarding these things.
Regards,
John
who has heard many good things about the Lyons C Clarinet
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Author: donald nicholls
Date: 2002-02-19 18:12
the "kinderclarinet" in E flat is a pretty good idea- in fact one of the schools i teach at is buying one soon.
i get a bit puzzled by people talking about the resistance of the e flat clarinet.... i know players and teachers who recomend using a much harder set up, who give advice like "you just have to put on a really hard reed and suffer/bit like crazy" etc etc etc why these people do this to their students bugs me- this thread has raised this issue.
i have a Zinner E flat mouthpiece refaced for me by Brad Behn, and i use standard B flat reeds with the bottom cut off. I play with the same resistance as on the B flat, using the same embouchure. IF i have a piece with heaps of really high notes (for example "Dead Elvis" or "Four City Blocks") i will make sure that i have a stronger reed- but the variation in reed selection won't be any greater than that for my B flat playing.... on B flat sometimes i need a harder reed too.
the E flat is harder to play in tune, no question. There is a difference in resistance as it is smaller, i can't really imagine this being a problem for kids- most of whom can blow the crap out of a B flat...... but at the end of the day the E flat is just a "little clarinet" and with a few allowances for intonation can be played that way. Yes, you play it differently from the B flat, but you LEARN it the same way.
YAMAHA make a great student model E flat but, in nz at any rate, it is nearly twice the price of the Bflat student model. The Kinder clarinet is really cheap and plays just fine (missing a few keys you don't need for a year or so).
nzdonald
"spectacular E flat clarinet playing from Donald Nicholls"- Music in NZ, summer 2001 (just to show off a little)
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Author: JIM RAMEY
Date: 2002-02-20 13:47
i bought one of those last year for 500 bucks from the recorder shop
in n.y. Dont waste your bread it has no use whatsoever i use it to demonstrate an old oddball clarinet . i guess it would make a nice wall hanger.
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Author: jez
Date: 2002-02-20 19:59
nzdonald,
"spectacular........................."
See top of page; "No self-promotion is allowed! If you wish to advertise please consider becoming a sponsor"
Sorry, only joking. I absolutely agree with you. Why do people always give the E flat such a hard time or make it hard for themselves, when it can sound so spectacular.
I don't know either of the pieces you mention (Dead Elvis, 4 city blocks) I'd recommend to anyone the experience of playing Shostakovitch No. 10 or Strauss Alpine symph. to get the position of the E flat in the orchestra in perspective
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Author: diz
Date: 2002-02-20 21:08
Speaking of Sneezy sponsors - why not consider the Lyons clarinet - it's a almost fully fledged clarinet (some alternate keywork is missing)- made of light weight material (plastic) and the transition from it to a normal clarinet is no obstacle. See Sneezy sponsors - this clarinet is pitched in C, by the way. Also, it's not outrageously expensive - unless you happen to be using Australian dollars, in which case everything from europe/america is expensive!
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