 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Mike
Date: 2002-02-14 13:43
What is a good flute for a clarinet player to switch over to? By switch I mean double, I would never be that unfaithful to my true love
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Author: GBK
Date: 2002-02-14 13:45
How much do you want to spend?
Flutes can go from a few dollars to almost infinity...GBK
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Author: jbutler
Date: 2002-02-14 14:27
I like the Pearl, Yamaha, and the new Trevor James flutes. I play a 481H, but you may want to start with the plateau. I would also recommend that you try the 461H (offset G rather than inline), and the Pearl and James (I believe it it called "etude") equivalent.
jbutler
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Author: GBK
Date: 2002-02-14 15:00
I didn't mean to not give you some actual input to your query...sorry.
I use an open hole Emerson, one of the Model 88 types.
I do agree with jbutler as to favoring an off set G rather than an in line G.
Many clarinet players who double on flute find that is a bit more comfortable.
The available options and possible "extras' concerning flute choices can be staggering.
Find a price range that won't break your bank, and try a few models with a pro flutist or teacher...GBK
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Author: Mary
Date: 2002-02-14 15:18
I love my muramatsu, but I like the yamaha 581's too and they're quite a bit cheaper. My muramatsu has a waved head joint to help the sound pop right out for a doubler- some flutists don't like that head because ultimately it can make you a little less flexible in your palette of tone colors, but for a doubler it's great. Both these flutes are pretty freeblowing.
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Author: Mike
Date: 2002-02-14 15:28
What is a waved head joint?
I have around £500
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Author: allencole
Date: 2002-02-14 16:27
I play a 581 with an inline G myself. (really wanted an offset G, but the horn came along at a steal)
It's a beautiful instrument, although it really sucks the wind out of me compared to my old Emerson. It's also less forgiving of my old habit of overblowing the fifth on difficult high register runs. (in other words, it's so easy to overblow that it's hard to return to normal pitch after a run of cheater fingerings)
Mary -- have you tried any of the Yamaha headjoints other than what came on your 581's. If so, does a particular head joint favor the doubler?
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2002-02-14 18:57
My flute has a non-offset open-hole G, which killed my left wrist and forearm. I got a plug for the hole, so I can press the edge of the key. If you do that, though, you should take it to a flute technician to have the key set slightly higher to fix the intonation. Some players have a dime silver-soldered to the edge of the G key to provide even more room.
The "wave" lip plate is one of a number of variations. It's more curved than usual, so your lower lip rests higher. There's also a "winged" lip plate that has projections on either side of the embouchure hole that your lower lip can push against to help form a more coherent air stream.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Brian
Date: 2002-02-14 21:17
Mike,
I personally like the Gemeinhardt flutes. I have a model 3SHB with open holes,offset g and low b foot. It is an intermediate model which I find perfect for doubling.
Kessler and Sons has a great selection with great prices.
http://www.kesslermusic.com
Good luck!
Brian
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Author: Joseph O'Kelly
Date: 2002-02-14 21:20
I got started last year on a Gemeinhardt 2SP model. This is their basic silver plated student model. It is serving me well but I feel that a solid silver flute is on my want list. My sound on it is really nice.
For a doubler a student model is nice because i believe that they are made to play with less resistance.
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Author: Josh
Date: 2002-02-14 21:42
Considering your price range, I would seriously consider either Trevor James, Dean Yang, or Jupiter. All are extremely well made flutes, and I own various models of all three which I occasionally use as backups to my gold Brannen and wooden Abell when I don't feel like dragging them around, or to play outside and such. Being a clarinetist, I would recommend that you use an open hole flute, since it would feel much more familiar to your fingers. Also, and this is just a personal preference, I am much more inclined to recommend an offset G, which will save your wrists untold amounts of trouble. As for C or B foot, that's purely personal preference...at the beginner level, you will not encounter music containing the low B, nor will you be playing high C's enough (or at all) to warrant the B foot, and you may prefer the lighter C foot to start with. Being in England, I believe any flute you purchase there will have a split E key on it, and if not, get one. You'll be glad you did.
I hope this is helpful, as has been everyone else's post If you have any other flutey questions, though, feel free to email me offline Ciao!
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Author: Pam
Date: 2002-02-14 22:51
I just started flute in the fall and have a Yamaha with open holes, in-line G (though I agree that off-set G may tend to be more comfortable) and a C foot. The open holes weren't hard to get used to as an adult. I got mine used off of e-bay.
Yamaha has a fairly new "step-up" line of flutes called the Allegro I believe that is a really nice instrument for the money. A friend of mine has one of these and likes it.
Good luck!
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Author: David Pegel
Date: 2002-02-14 23:45
i believe with 500 pounds you can get a decent Yamaha or Gemeinhardt flute. Those play very well.
I'm not sure on how the pound compares to the USD, so please forgive me if it is not enough. Here the Yamahas and Gemeinhardts run anywhere from 300- USD (new student) to 2000+ USD (pro)
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Author: Luanne
Date: 2002-02-15 13:09
Hi,
I have a great Yamaha 674H that I double on. It has an EC headjoint which I found to blow alot more freely than the 461H I had. I do believe with everyone here about the offset G. It is a much easier hand position than the inline. I also recommend a split e mechanism. It takes a little more work to find flutes in the US with the attachment but well worth it. The Trevor James is a nice flute to start on and most have a split E. Yamaha makes the 371 with a solid silver headjoint and split e more for the European market. Some of the Yamaha model numbers vary from the US to Europe. Pearl 6oo or 700 series are also very nice flutes as some one had mentioned earlier. Your best bet is to go try out several different makers and models to find which feels more comfortable to you. Each one is a little different and depending on your own playing, it will be the only way to figure out what is best.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-02-15 15:25
1. Yamaha mechanism is far more reliable for adjustments than Pearl. I have printed for local buyers a sheet outlining 17 design/manufacture inadequacies in Pearl. Yamaha has none! NONE!
2. Open hole is utterly pointless unless you want to do special effects like sliding note to note, or for a professional player humouring the pitch of top ocatve notes in ppp. It adds interruption to the bore, leaks air along your finger prints if you have hard skin, creates leak problems for a player not practicing regularly, and makes repadding significantly more difficult because pads are practically impossible to remove without slight crushing, which mucks up the seating the pad is being removed to correct. Crazy! Simply not sensible for 98% of players, but a fashion statement.
3. In line G. A fashion in America. 99% of flutes here in NZ are not in line. Definitely not ergonomic because the ring finger is shorter than the middle finger. Guys punish themselves getting used to it and then believe it IS ergonomic. Even more crazy! Totally lacking in sense. Fashion again.
4. Split E mechanism definitely helps with stability of 3rd octave E. Worth paying a little extra.
5. Student Yamaha tone & response is streets ahead of student Gemeinhardt, Emerson, Artley, Armstrong, and about 80 others. Pearl sometimes has excellent tone, sometimes sacrificing E quality in the second octave.
6. Most of these others have non-level tone holes 'compensated' for by thick, squishy, low quality pads.
7. A silver head on many student models actually makes them play worse, simply because the head/embouchure hole design is so bad.
8. Yamaha's consistent engineering precision and 'flawless' design is way ahead of other student makes.
9. My severe criteria have resulted in me being very disappointed with Trevor James, but I do not recal the details.
10. A solid silver head on Yamaha does make a significant difference to the tone & response.
11. Older models almost invariably are inferior than current models - flute head design hads gone a long way in the last decade or two. However Artley low notes have got worse. And Gemeinhard, which at least is reasonably robust, had in their 2sp model an embouchure hole which could be modified to get a reasonably clear sound, has upgraded their design which seems to be unimprovable and still has a 'fuzzy' sound.
12. The combination of split E and in-line keys is mechanically very silly, introducing the potential for mechanism jamming and less security of mounting. It is probably Americas strange love affair with in-line keys that has restricted its acceptance of split E, a far preferable feature.
etc, etc.....
So I recommend a basic student Yamaha, currently model YFL221.
If you want something better go for the Yamaha YFL311, which has solid silver head, split E, offset G, and closed hole.
The really silly thing is that America, in its infinite wisdom, does not seem to import this really sensible model, thanks to the fashions mentioned above.
These are my impressions from having taught 500 kids, Being a capable public performer, and having worked on and played over a thousand flutes of 138 'makes'. (No, not models!) However they are still just my opinions.
For the professional player the options are far wider, but dispensing with the 4 or 5 regulating screws in 'handmade' flutes is another very, very expensive and silly fashion. It does nothing else than make adjustment of linkages take about 100 times longer and introduces the unreliability of multi-layers of little pieces of paper and skin glued precariously to linkages, very close to lubricated surfaces. Of course the oil creeps, softens parts the glue, and the bits fall off.
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2002-02-15 17:06
Well, I'm a terrible flute player, and when I have to double on flute I use my 20+ year-old Gemeinhardt 2N closed-hole I bought used for about $125. I'm not sure if the quality of the instrument is partially responsible for my poor proficiency on flute (I tend to believe the flute is OK and the player is the problem), but I will say that, despite some poor reports I've read from repair techs about Gemeinhardts, mine has held up for all these years of occasional playing with ZERO maintenance, not even a single leak, not even a single pad replaced nor any adjustments needed. Go figure!
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-02-15 17:59
Gordon, do you by any chance sell Yamahas as part of your business or is repair your only business? I'm not asking this as a snide remark but just asking in the spirit of full disclosure. I honestly don't know the answer.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-02-16 07:08
I sell no instruments.
I was once offered an Emerson agency when I hardly knew the make. I am very glad I turned it down.
With the low standard of manufacture of so many instruments I would hate to be selling them. If I have the integrity to put right what I thought, as an astute repairer, ought to be put right prior to sale, and honured guarantee matters of quality control, then there would too little profit to stay in business in a market where retail prices are competitive. This would apply to most models of most makes.
For inner quality of life I prefer the wealth of integrity over the material wealth which comes at somebody else's expense. Well, something like that anyway. I'm not TOTALLY idealistic, and do face reality.
Example: I am now off to treat the significantly rusted springs of a Selmer Series 3 Sax, well looked after and only 1 year old. For decades these springs, because of the rust, will break unexpectedly. Springs were once made in such a way that they had high resistance to rust. If I had sold this instrument to the young lad I would feel dishonourable not to replace the lot.
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Author: A David Peacham
Date: 2002-02-16 09:14
In defence of Gordon's vigorous preference for Yamaha:
A friend of mine, in his forties, a good pianist with no woodwind experience, is planning to take up the flute. His prospective teacher's advice is to buy a Yamaha. This is in Paris, not a place that is greatly in love with foreign technology.
My 2 centimes (sorry, euro-cents) worth.
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Author: Mary
Date: 2002-02-16 16:18
I tried the headjoint that came with the 581 and also a wave Yamaha headjoint. I liked the wave better- it focuses the air for you a little more. I also know a lot of people who don't like them. Same with the Muramatsu- I tried both the standard AD headjoint that comes with the flute as well as the wave. I actually tried a number of Muramatsus and ended up buying a used one.
I don't know how much the headjoint itself costs. I paid a little more thatn $4000 for the flute, which was more than I'd intended for a doubling instrument, but it was so big sounding and easy to play that I just couldn't go back a level!
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Author: john cipolla
Date: 2002-02-16 17:36
you might try a yamaha flute. they are usually pretty consistent with quality. I'm not up on the exact model but i've tried many of the yamaha student flutes and they are quite good. i'd stay away from the Geminharts or cheap brands.
I understand your devotion to the clarinet, but remember that the better instrument you have, the better you'll sound. So if you plan to do a bit of playing on the flute I would'nt consider budget to be the utmost primary factor in purchasing an instrument.
It's a hard thing for a doubler to understand because money always gets in the way, but it is really important to have the best instrument you can possibly afford.
This actually carries over to the Eb and Bass clarinets as well. The only convincing one need would be to sit on a professional job with an inferior instrument. When the conductor points the baton at you and your instrument doesn't speak as you'd like it to, or the tone is not rich and full (due in part to the instrument as well as the player and embouchure) you might not be asked back again. I learned that lesson the hard way while playing Broadway Shows in New York.
You might try The Flute Exchange also. I think they have a web page.
The last thought is this. Be careful...the flute is addictive and if you don't watch out you'll find yourself enjoying it...maybe as much as you do the clarinet. You never know...
I wish you all the best in your doubling endeavors.
John Cipolla
John@JohnCipolla.com
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2002-02-17 00:27
Gordon (NZ) writes: "So I recommend a basic student Yamaha, currently model YFL221.
If you want something better go for the Yamaha YFL311, which has solid silver head, split E,
offset G, and closed hole.
The really silly thing is that America, in its infinite wisdom, does not seem to import this
really sensible model, thanks to the fashions mentioned above."
Noteworthy American curmudgeon Henry L. Mencken once said: "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public."
Gordon, your commentary on open hole flutes reminds me of a poster on a flute newsgroup who insisted that her students had to use open hole flutes "so they would learn the proper hand positions." To me, that sounds nuts, and I surely wouldn't want to discuss ergonomics with someone who thinks like that. But my only transverse flute right now is a Buffet 218 student model (works well enough for me).
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-02-17 09:32
Unfortunately there are hoards of flute players who ARE nuts, (and also sheep!) I used to be one of them. Common sense gained confidence and prevailed.
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Author: Martha E
Date: 2002-02-24 21:49
After doing a lot of reading online, and e-mailing a few music stores with questions, I recently bought a Yamaha YFL-261 (which is essentially the same as the 221, but has open holes). Both the 261 and the 221 have the offset G, which I was told is ergonomically better and reduces repetitive motion injuries.
The YFL-221 and YFL-261 are student instruments, but they're supposed to be pretty high quality ones. In my online searching, I found a lot of people (musicians and music teachers) who recommended the Yamaha flutes, and several (mainly college-level music professors) who recommended staying away from Gemeinhardt (a brand that I was previously considering). The music stores I contacted also told me that they considered the Yamahas to be slightly better quality instruments than the Gemeinhardts.
I ended up buying my flute from Music 123 (www.music123.com) because they gave me the best price and appeared to be reputable.
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Author: lala
Date: 2002-03-21 09:01
My first flute is a Yamaha 100 - the cheapest student model with consistent yet very bland sound. After a year I switched to a Yamaha 611. Solid silver is heavy to hold and harder to play, but the sound is sooooo much better. With hindsight I would recommend not to waste money on cheap student model - even a good one. Get beautiful sound as soon as possible, and you will continue to love it. When I switched to the clarinet 4 years ago, I went straight to a Buffet R13 and got the best mouthpiece and barrel I could find. I still regard it as a good decision.
Now about Yamaha. The brand is probably much better than most at the lower end, being always reliable and consistent. However, I never know any pro choosing Yamaha for performance. Another thing is, when I bought the 611, I also tried a Muramatzu within the same price range. Although it is only silver-plated, the workmanship was so good that the sound quality matched the 611.
I finally switched to a Muramatzu sterling silver. It is a beauty, but my heart is with the clarinet now...
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