 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Fran
Date: 2002-01-31 12:46
Hi friends,
I am an adult beginner, using my daughter's student clarinet for three months. I love it and I have learned so much from this website. Thank you.
Yesterday, I tried out three clarinets at a local store: the LeBlanc Concerto, the Buffet r-13, and an intermediate level Buffet. I found that the 5th finger keys, right hand more than left, were somehow too close(on the LeBlanc and the cheaper Buffet) I could feel the key below while playing the C. Is this something that is common and can easily be adjusted?
Next question: Do the silver plate keys stay newer looking for longer ie. tarnish less?
After playing for an hour, I decided that at my skill level I could not get that much of a better sound from these great instruments. Then I remembered reading here that you can get a better sound from a plastic horn just by upgrading the mouthpiece. So, for now I bought a Vandoren B45 and a Rovner ligature, at the suggestion of a salesman. The improvement in sound from my student clarinet was amazing!
Do you think my teacher should have suggested that for me in the first place? I'm thinking of changing teachers, and would wait to get the new clarinet until I have confidence in the teacher's ability to advise me on the right equipment.
When should I upgrade to a wood clarinet? (I don't think it pays to choose an intermediate one) I hope to be able to join a community orchestra or band by next year.
Thanks for any advice,
Fran
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Author: Steve Hartman
Date: 2002-01-31 13:19
Fran:
Keep looking for a great clarinet. It may take a while, but it will be worth the wait.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2002-01-31 15:27
Please take this as a personal opinion only, Fran. You'll get many more (differing) thoughts on the subject, I'm sure. Take your pick
Those pinky keys can be adjusted to suit your touch but, at this stage, I'd ask a repair tech to do it for you. It's not a difficult thing to do if you have the right tools and an 'experienced' touch. Most techs do.
Now then, personally, I'd wait until I had played in a band for a while. You'll then be far enough advanced to make seat of the pants decisions. Check out what others use, ask around -- why they like or don't like what they have. Gather information before making a major decision like buying a new (several hundred bucks) instrument. In the meantime, practice with what you have... it's a good setup -- the mouthpiece works for you and I assume the horn is functioning well. Plastic clarinets are fine and take less 'care' than wood ones. There is really no *great* difference in the sound of a good plastic instrument and wood instrument. There may be a bit of a difference in the way they 'feel' but, that's subjective. Price and sound are not subjective.
Plated keys generally keep their shine without much fuss. unplated nickle silver keys will gather a nice patina in a few weeks unless they're rubbed frequently with a dry, soft cloth. Although, as part of routine maintenance, you should do that with all clarinet keys anyway.
- ron b -
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Author: William
Date: 2002-01-31 15:37
If money is not an issue, then it would be wise to invest in a top line (professional) wood clarinet from the start--you will want one later on, anyhow, and they do play better than the intermediate models. As far as brands, the "world standard" is Buffet, but many pros are switching to LeBlancs, Selmers and Yamahas. My preference is the LeBlanc Concerto, which I find to be even in all registers, well in tune and fits accoustically into any playing venue I choose. The R-13 is, perhaps, the most common choice among Buffet players, but many are also playing the new Greenline which is more durable to changes in temperatures. Also, try the Festival and RC models. For Selmer, the Signiture is the newest "kid on the block" but is not catching on as well as they had expected. They play well in the studio, but lack flexability and projection in the ensemble. Yamahas are good instruments, but I do not know much about the different available models. The little finger key problems you noticed are not serious and will disappear with practice--regardless which instrument you choose. Your teacher is correct in saying that the quality of your mpc is critical to how your clarinet performs, and the VD B45 is a good choice. For a "step up", I would recommend Greg Smith's Cicero Kaspar models. Reeds????? VanDoren V12s. 3.5 are about as good as it gets in the commercial reed department. Silver does hold up better than nickle, although some people feel that silver is more slippery to the touch. All of my clarinets are in silver, except one which I had gold plated for "show." We all Welcome YOU to the Wonderful World of Clarinet (Misery loves company) (just kidding, right!!!--everyone!!!) Good Clarineting!!!! and post again if you have further questions.
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-01-31 15:55
Fran...I second most of ronb's comments including the opener. I have a second hand plastic Yamaha and a new wood horn by another mfgr.. and I play both. Neither is an expensive horn. I just tried a brand new "famous make" wood horn with a price tag of almost $2,000 and was quite disappointed due to the supposed professional setup and the fact it didn't sound any different than the other two....as far as I was concerned. Perhaps any horn I play will sound about the same since none come with an embochure. In my opinion a new wood or plastic clarinet in any of the standard makes at around the $600 range offers the average non-professional musician about 90% of what a $2000 (actual out-of-pocket..not list price) new pro-level would. But that's just my opinion.
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Author: Anne
Date: 2002-01-31 17:47
Hi Fran,
Congratulations on starting the clarinet journey. I recently started myself. My decision NOT to buy a top of the line instrument was based on time. As head of household with diverse responsibilities, I know that the world can change in an instant. My free time really isn't free. I told myself that I would purchase whatever my heart's dream is after one year of learning. I need to listen to the cds, attend performances, and make the personal connections with people willing to help me evaluate that instrument. My ears and fingers don't know enough right now.
My choice was for two clarinets, one wood and one plastic. (I didn't forget the silve Conn, it's more of a collectible). The plastic is for the Florida home (5 months of the year). Both are excellent with the top mouthpieces, just like your experience. (Love that Rovner).
Now I have months to study the classifieds, go to stores and play what they might have, and learn the differences. I know that the soloists on the cds not only have thousands of dollars of customizing, but also wonderful sound engineers. I will never get that particular sound out of my horn. Nevertheless, I can discern the sound qualities that I want to own.
I am not usually a "sidelines" kind of gal. Grew up a NYer and Gemini, the leap before you look person. But I have such respect for the quality of the clarinet, and the resources they come from, that I want to purchase a used one. New is fine. Those trees are going to grow whether I want a clarient or not. But the used one has a history, a presence in the world, a tradition I would like to be a part of. My, what a poetic thought. California has mellowed me. Whatever you decide, I wish you the best playing and enjoyment there is. Anne
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Author: Wes
Date: 2002-01-31 19:10
If money is no object, I'd try several R13's and buy one. The Concerto is also great and some have said that the acoustics are similar. However, if you decide on something else later, the R13 will be relatively easy to sell. There are subtle sound enhancements in the R13 that are not easy to describe but are heard by the listener. The disadvantages to the R13 include the tendencies for the E2 to be low in pitch, the B3 and C3 to be high in pitch, and the F4 and F# 4 to be low in pitch. I have two fairly new nickle plated R13's and find them quite slippery on the fingers. This abates in time. My older silver plated and unplated nickle Buffets seem less slippery to me. If money again is no object, I'd buy the silver plated R13. If you don't expose it to extremes of temperature, I'd not buy a Greenline. Good Wishes and Have Fun!!
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-02-01 14:22
Perhaps this is more cynical than necessary but it makes a point.
You say that you are an adult beginner, and ask, "When should I upgrade to a wood clarinet?"
In answer I ask you, "When should a person upgrade from a Nissan Primera to a Mercedes to do the shopping?"
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Author: GBK
Date: 2002-02-01 17:08
..."When should a person upgrade from a Nissan Primera to a Mercedes to do the shopping?"....
Only when you are buying your groceries in Beverly Hills or Southampton (Long Island)....
(Sorry Gordon, I had to use USA references) ...GBK
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2002-02-01 21:57
Fran,
If the "intermediate" Buffet you were trying was an E11, the right hand keys felt too close for a reason. They are noticeably smaller than on Buffet's intermediate and professional clarinets (except, perhaps for the E12 -- I don't know whether it has the smaller right-hand pinky keys or not). The keys are presumably designed this way to fit the smaller hands of a child but usually are not a problem for an adult unless s/he has large hands. I don't know about the Concerto because I've never played one. However, I would be surprised to find that it's keys were smaller than normal so I don't know what you were feeling there.
I agree with the majority of the above posters who have recommended (in one way or another) against rushing out and buying a new clarinet right away (especially a professional model). As you have perceptively noted, you haven't reached a point in your development where your current clarinet is holding you back. There are a number of reasons why waiting makes sense. For one thing, if you wait until you have a better mastery of the instrument, you will be in a much better position to judge which of the myriad of alternatives out there will best suit you in the long run. What feels good now might not in a few years. Also, at this point, you sound highly motivated to pursue the instrument and make it a life-long interest. But you really haven't been playing very long and life has a way of intervening. To take the analogy started by Gordon and continued by GBK in a slightly different direction, clarinets are like autos. Once you drive them off the dealer's lot, they take a sharp drop in resale value. A new professional clarinet from one of the mail-order places will probably run $1700 - $1800. Local music stores sometimes charge considerably more. If, after a few months, you were to decide to give up the instrument, you would probably be lucky to get $1200 for it.
As far as the teacher goes, you are the one who must evaluate whether you are receiving value for your money in your lessons. I suspect, however, that his/her failure to recommend you try a new mouthpiece, should not be a deciding factor. If you were not having trouble producing a decent sound, there would be no "symptom" for the teacher to react to (and note that how you sound to an outsider may be quite different than how you "feel" as you play because you are "hearing" yourself more through the bones in your nasal passage than through your ears). And the mouthpiece you were using might actually be a good beginner's mouthpiece. (What were you using, BTW?) I am happy that you have found the B45 a significant improvement. Frankly, I think you were very lucky in that regard. While some others may disagree, I believe (and a number of very good teachers I know or who have posted to the Klarinet list or this bulletin board agree) that the B45 is far too open (resistant) to be a good mouthpiece for most beginners. But it seems to work for you and you should go with what works.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: Fran
Date: 2002-02-03 12:56
Thanks to all who responded! You've been so helpful. I haven't made any decisions as yet.
To Gordon,
I've been driving a car for years and I'm a very good driver, maybe even as good as you! I could do a fine job driving that Mercedes, if I wanted to, but that would set me back, oh $30,000 +. Since I'm not such a car person I choose to spend money on other things that are important to me. When I want to research new cars I go to "Consumer Reports" magazine to get ideas and recommendations.
Here I'm talking about a hobby that I've fallen in love with. I'm researching the equipment here on this web site, and I'm looking at instruments costing in the $1k-2000 range. I lost more than that in the stock market!
Since I'm an adult, and I work, I don't think it's that extravagant an expense. I've fallen in love with the clarinet, and I feel so much better since I've started playing. You, readers of this board have more experience, than I about clarinets.
If you'd like to know about Buicks, I could help you out with that, Gordon!
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-02-04 13:18
Ah! Now you are getting specific about your desire to spend a certain amount of money on your clarinet. The parameters have changed. The initial statement about you being a beginner was what I reacted to. But you have introduced a new parameter.
Most writers here say the choice of pro instrument is a very personal one. So do you want the Merc or the Rolls (or twenty other possibilities), or do you want to wait a little until have the experience to make a PERSONAL choice?
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Author: GBK
Date: 2002-09-27 04:10
<img src="http://www.howstrange.com/gallery/elevator.gif" width="280" height="210">
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