 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Kat
Date: 2002-01-19 03:52
I have a potential student who is 8 years old. She is rather small for an 8-year-old, but really wants to study clarinet. She definitely cannot reach all the tone holes on a b-flat, and her fingers are not large enough to cover the tone holes she can reach. Does anyone have any stories to share about the Lyons C clarinet and your young students?
Additionally, can anyone inform me if the company is still in business? I've tried their website tonight and cannot get to it. It seemed fine a couple of weeks ago.
If the company is no longer around, can anyone give me any reports on the various e-flat instruments that are floating about being marketed to kids? I'm looking for specifics as to quality of manufacture and durability. And, specifically, who builds the "Kinder-Klari" that you see in the WW/BW catalog??? They couldn't tell me!
Katrina
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Author: Peter
Date: 2002-01-19 05:15
Katrina,
The "Kinder-Klari" is made by Guntram Wolf, you can reach him at:
Im Ziegelwinkel 13
D-96317 Kronach
Germany
Tel.: 09261 4207
Fax: 09261 52782
e-mail: info@guntramwolf.de
Internet: www.guntramwolf.de
When you get his home page, if you click on the Brit flag at the bottom, right third of the page, you will get the English site.
They build some very nice instruments. The Kinder Klarinet is a very nice piece of work, although presently available only in the German system. This year they will start to make them in the Bohm system.
They are not very cheap, but they are well made. The best one is the C-2 Plus, which, presently, has a full set of 11 keys (German system.) It comes out to €440.95, or $394.39 USD (at today's rate.)
The C-2 is less money, but it's also less instrument. for the money. It has only six keys. It can be converted later, but it's more trouble to do it that way, as the child will almost for sure need the conversion before long, anyway. It comes out to €343.95, or $307.63 USD (at today's rate.)
They make a C-1, but it only has three keys and is not convertible. Not good.
It's much better built than the Lyons C. Graham Lyons is a very nice person, but I would venture to say, more interested in his music (publishing?) business. He has a marketing company overseas that distributes his clarinet, but not very fast or aggresively.
Mr. Lyons himself, may or may not answer your e-mails to him.
The information I have for Grgaham Lyons is:
Graham Lyons
Useful Music
3 Tinley Court,
Tinley Garth,
Kirkbymoorside,
North Yorkshire, YO62 6HP
England
Tel: 00 44 1751 433379
http://www.firstclarinet.com
http://www.usefulpiano.com
e-mail: usefulmusic@aol.com
It's workable, but the Kinder is better built. The advantage to the Lyons is that you can snap out damaged parts and snap in replacements, but it's not built nearly as well, nor as alike to a "normal" instrument as the Kinder. It used to come out to about $280.00(?) USD, but I don't know how current this information is.
Then there is the Selmer model 810, plastic clarinet in Eb. An excellent choice. I had one for years, it may still be around. It's well built and small enough for a child's fingers. I am not current on how much it's going for at this time.
Well, abadi, abadi, that's all (I know) ffolks.
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Author: Peter
Date: 2002-01-19 05:19
Kat,
Oops, this is too funny. I addressed you as Katrina on the post. I must have been thinking of my favorite cat (Katrina Katt) when I started writing to you, she's laying down between my keyboard and the monitor even as I write!
Sorry Kat.
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Author: Peter
Date: 2002-01-19 05:26
I just looked at the WW&BW ad, and apparently they must have come out in the Boehm system. But the price is not the same as the German ad. Try asking the WW&BW if this one they have is plastic or wood.
The web page says wood.
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Author: Lawrence
Date: 2002-01-19 13:55
Kat,
I know you said that your student's hands are too small to reach the keys of a full size clarinet, but a model with plateau keys gives much more flexibility in finger placement. The only new one I can find is a Vito 7214P. The Leblanc website lists this, along with a poor picture, that makes it look like some of the holes are open but they (Leblanc) told me all the holes are really closed. Perhaps this will work.
Lawrence
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2002-01-19 14:29
Kat,
I think Peter has inadvertently steered you in the wrong direction this time (a very rare occurrence in his posts, IMHO).
I had never heard of Guntram Wolf in conjunction with the Kinder-Klari so I went to his web site. I don't see the children's clarinet that he sells designated anywhere as a "Kinder-Klari" though it may be his designation and it may be in his price list (which I won't be able to see until a download of the Adobe Acrobat finishes).
The instruments described there, however, are not what the Woodwind & Brasswind is selling. He lists two models:
C1 (probably plastic) with 3 keys. He doesn't say what key this instrument is in, only that the low note is C1. From his ad, my best guess is that this translates to concert C4 in the Sneezy system. (Gratuitous editorial comment: I have never liked the Sneezy system, IMO middle C should be c1 but, I guess, the system is better than nothing and it is Mark's board.)
C2 is made of "light[weight] wood and pitched in C. It comes in two versions, a 6-key clarinet or a simple German system instrument. (The 6-key is somehow convertible to the German system later at the owner's option.)
The Kinder-Klari in the WW&BW catalog is a plastic Eb clarinet with a simplified Boehm system (some keys that provide alternate fingerings have been omitted). If you go to the Sneezy home page and click on "Klarinet Archives" then search on "Denman Kinder" (without the quotes), you will find several messages about this instrument. In short, if the information there is accurate (and I think it is), the Kinder-Klari sold by the WW and BW (and others) was the brainchild of the Australian, Neville Chambers, (Second gratuitous editorial comment: a remarkable man I would have very much enjoyed meeting) who developed it with considerable help from John Denman. I don't know who does the actual manufacturing but WW&BW could probably tell you if you talk to the right person. The messages also mention that this Kinder Klari is considerably easier to blow than a standard Eb clarinet and contain a debate on the wisdom of starting a child on the clarinet at a very young age (before 10) that you may or may not want to read.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: Kat
Date: 2002-01-20 04:00
Thanks for the info, everyone. The guy at WW&BW had actually said that he THOUGHT the Kinder Klari (the Eb version/simpler Boehm system) was manufactured somewhere in China. One of the posts on the Klarinet list you mentioned also claims this, but another one or two say otherwise. One even says it's made by Buffet!!!! (I don't really buy that...)
As to the debate of starting a child at a younger age, I'm also not entirely convinced. But I do have another student who started at 7 (can't imagine the problems with the loss of baby teeth!) with a different teacher. I'm having to correct more problems with musical issues than with clarinet issues, in fact. She is now almost 10, and still has physical limitations in terms of clarinet playing, due to asthma and torso size. Her fingers are just fine, though!
Thanks for the reference to the list, Jack. I may have to bite the bullet and join up finally. I've been avoiding more listservs lately, but the content on some of the other posts is really quite remarkable.
Oh, and Peter, my name really is Katrina. I just don't put that in the "name" section for some odd reason. You can call me either Kat or Katrina.
Katrina
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Author: Peter
Date: 2002-01-20 21:43
Jack and Kat,
Sorry about the mix-up.
You are right, I went back to my past communications with Guntram Wolf, and even though we talked about his "Kinder Klarinet," specifically using that name for it, none of his offical descriptions call it by that name. "Kinder" is used for many things relating to small children, hence, perhaps, the mix-up.
In one of those communications, he told me that his children's clarinets are manufactured mainly "from a special kind of maple." I still have the e-mails.
I first heard of Guntram Wolf from a couple of people I know who bought his instruments some time back, but at the time I was looking for a clarinet for a child, I asked someone at the WW&BW who manufactured the KinderKlarinet in their catalog and they told me they didn't know, but believed it was manufactured in Germany.
I looked up KinderKlarinet on the internet and came up with Guntram Wolf. I just made the same search and could not find him that way and I don' t remember what I did to find him the last time.
All I can tell you is that, for the price, he makes excellent instruments and his children's clarinets are well above average, not to say superb.
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Author: Arnold the basset hornist
Date: 2002-01-21 07:53
Hello,
here some information on <a href=http://www.guntramwolf.de>Guntram Wolf's</a> kinder clarinets:
The C1 is made of maple wood and is effectively pitched in high G and played with a german Eb clarinet reed, but the shaft has to be shortened - not the first joice to start learning clarinet with 8 years. There is a fingering chart for it at <www.wfg.sneezy.org>.
It's a nice instrument for backpack camping tours - playing at the evening and let your friends sing.
The C2 models are pitched in C.
Arnold (the basset hornist)
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Author: Arnold the basset hornist
Date: 2002-01-21 08:05
Sorry - here the lost link to the <a href=http://www.wfg.sneezy.org>Woodwind fingering guide</a>.
Arnold (the basset hronist)
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Author: Roman Eller
Date: 2002-01-21 13:51
The company's website is www.firstclarinet.com and it costs about 260 dollars.
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Author: Mary
Date: 2002-01-21 18:07
I actually started out a five year old student on a Vito (Leblanc) closed hole plateau clarinet. If you can find one (somehow the local stores have come up with them on the couple instances I've needed), and it's in good regulation this can be a great way to go. All the holes are covered by flat flute-type keys. You get all the standard alternate keys, and you get used to blowing and voicing a Bb clarinet. When the student is big enough for a standard clarinet, you need to spend a couple lessons getting used to covering holes, but that's not so bad.
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Author: Kat
Date: 2002-01-21 20:16
Don Quijote: To which clarinet do you refer? The Lyons?
Roman: I've tried that link recently and it doesn't seem to be functioning. When you look for it it says that the account has been disabled. Anyone know what's up with the company?
And thanks, everyone, this discussion is excellent!
Katrina
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Author: GBK
Date: 2003-01-30 04:17
<img src="http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/acclaim.gif">
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