 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Peter
Date: 2002-01-14 19:08
Why have the alto clarinet and the soprano saxophone fallen on such hard times?
(Although I hear people tell that the soprano sax might be, slowly, making a come-back.)
I play both, and I can't understand it. In fact, I started playing the soprano sax because of Sidney Bechet.
What a fantastic sound these two instruments can have in the right hands (well, the lefts too.)
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2002-01-14 19:44
Soprano sax fallen on hard times? Don't tell mega-zillionaire Kenny G that. As for alto cl., it never had any good times to fall from.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2002-01-14 19:51
Peter, I think Kenny G might not agree on the popularity of the soprano sax, as he is probably the biggest seller of recordings for that instrument. Like him, or hate him for "going commercial", there does seem to be a market for it.
My theory on the soprano sax is that it fell out of favor in the recognized "Big Band" era of the 30's and 40's, as the standard front row was 2 altos, 2 tenors, and bari (occasionally clarinet, of course).
It seems to be only in the last 25 years or so that jazz composers and arrangers started writing charts using soprano sax, and bass clarinet as they look for new combinations of sound. I play lead alto, as you know, in a big band, but do not own a soprano. On the rare occasion that I see it (actually very rare, as we mainly play 30's and 40's), I use clarinet.
I'll let others address the alto clarinet...GBK
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Author: Bob Arney
Date: 2002-01-14 23:49
Ron, I'm in the market for a good mouthpiece and lig for my alto but have not found anything here in "North Belly Button Iowa." Do you have any recommendations?
Bob A
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Author: Todd
Date: 2002-01-15 01:42
Why have they fallen on hard times? I think it is because they are too weird to listen to. I play them both too, and as a part of the recent holiday music I did a few arrangements of traditional carols for the two of them. Jaws dropped, some folks stared. Definitly turned out too weird. It was fun though.
I see parts for alto clarinet and soprano sax in the music of Percy Grainger, ...I guess he had a special feeling for/from them 8~)
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Author: ron b
Date: 2002-01-15 02:29
Bob -
I'm not that familiar with the alto yet. I'm using the mpc that came with the horn and so far it seems okay. For me at this stage any stock mpc and lig will do. I used to pick up Bb mouthpieces occasionally on eBay. I now find ones just as good or better at very reasonable prices at local instrument repair shops. I understand that you can try-out-to-buy mpcs by mail order. You might try those places or, I think you can post a 'looking for' ad at Sneezy's classifieds. There are also some good mouthpiece refinisher sponsors at Sneezy.
I'm afraid I'm not much help to you at this time as I'm barely getting into alto clarinet myself.
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Author: diz
Date: 2002-01-15 03:09
Oh my! I happen to LIKE the sound of the Alto clarinet - do I need therapy? So to the soprano sax, er, give me a good old baritone anyday.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2002-01-15 03:51
In a big band that I've played lead alto in for a few years, I always bring the alto, the soprano(Selmer SeriesIII), and flute. Since they only play somewhat recent arrangements, there is rarely a clarinet part. I only bring the clarinet if asked or if I know it will be used. The soprano is often featured and can be considered essential in this venue. I bought my first soprano in 1944, a wonderful Buescher, by the way.
Unfortunately, the alto clarinet has not found it's place even though is easy to play and sounds great. One should encourage it's use but it only seems to appear in large concert bands. Good Luck!!
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Author: Jack Swickard
Date: 2002-01-15 04:38
Bob,
Walter Grabner (can be found on this website) made a great alto clarinet mouthpiece for me! He was recommended by Dave Spiegelthal and I can not say enough good things about him!!!
Happy alto playing.
Jack
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Author: Sneakers
Date: 2002-01-15 05:05
I guess I have never heard a good alto clarinet player, it sounds awful to me. So where can one find a recording featuring the alto clarinet. I like Kenny G. and love the sound of the soprano sax!
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Author: Sneakers
Date: 2002-01-15 05:10
I remembered something else about the alto clarinet after I made my last post - that is that between the bass clarinet and the Bb soprano the range of the alto is covered, and that in the opinion of some the tone quality of the other two instruments is superior to the alto, so why have an alto clarinet?
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Author: Peter
Date: 2002-01-15 06:15
Ahhh, Ron,
If only I could play like Sydney Bechet. The first thing I would play would be to my boss. It would be that country song titled: "Take this job and shove it." Of couse, I'd be playing it to myself, but I'm sure y'all get the jist!
In your new group: What no bass?
Robert and GBK,
You see, that is the puzzle: Here is a single person, Kenny G (much of whose music I don't particularly like,) making a killing playing the sop sax, yet, that's one in how many thousands?
But almost nobody else seems to want to use the sop sax for much anymore. I personally know, perhaps, a couple of hundred (not exagerating) professional musicians, many sax players, but I only know one sop sax player among the bunch, and heard of another from him. Some others may dabble in it, but only at home, not professionally.
It doesn't really affect me, as I only play for myself, but seeing Kenny G's success, why is he not inspiring more musicians, as Bechet once did?
The reason his music does not thrill me is the same as I felt about Al Hirt and feel about Arturo Sandoval: Here are (was, in Al Hirts' case) some of the most technically and artistically expert musician's ever to put a few notes together and blow them out of the end of a horn, but they try so hard to show off how much they know how to do, that they lose track of the music people like me want to hear played.
I would go to see Kenny G play to enjoy music being played by such an outstanding musician, but in much of his music he adds so many flourishes, tricks and stunts that, often, the music itself becomes unrecognizable. It's almost like he plays way to many notes to come to the point. As though the music itself takes a back seat to his musical abilities. These people also rarely give other musician's in the group a fair chance to play a lead part. I like to hear all the instruments.
I mean, look at Bechet. He was the greatest sop sax player who ever lived to play, but his music was devoid of "show off" parts. He played the music, and not "alone." In many of his recordings you hear him playing "against" others in his group, alternating the sound.
And, among the bunch I personally know, I don't know a single alto clarinet player, except myself and the other BB inmates who play one. I also don't think the alto clarinet has a bad sound. I know mine has a rich, deep sound that I like very much.
Bob,
I don't know if this may be useful to you, but Vandoren makes a 5RV and a B-40, either of which works well with my wood, Conn alto clarinet. It really depends on what I'm playing, but I mostly prefer the B-40. They also make a B-44, which is sort of like the B-40, but I find it harder to blow.
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2002-01-15 13:04
In line with Sneakers' second post, a large majority of the range of the alto clarinet is overlapped by either soprano or bass clarinet. It can play a few lower notes that the alto can't and possibly a few higher notes that the bass can't. Being as how they are all clarinets, their timbre's are nearly identical, so that isn't a major selling point for the alto either.
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Author: A David Peacham
Date: 2002-01-15 14:56
In lamenting the declining of the soprano sax, I'm surprised no-one has mentioned Jan Garbarek, who plays soprano and tenor on the phenomenally successful album Officium and its followup Mnemosyne.
As for popular appeal, Officium is currently at sales rank 540 at amazon.co.uk. Kenny G's Breathless is at 1811.
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Author: Blake
Date: 2002-01-15 15:43
I'm in a clarinet quartet and we've tried different arrangements and configurations... 3 Bb/Bass, Eb/Bb/Alto/Bass Eb/2Bb/Bass and its interesting that the best sound doesnt really seem to matter so much with the instrument as the ability of the arranger/composer to utilize the best sounding parts of instrument. For example, if you have a piece that puts the clarinet in the throat tones/clarion of the bass clarinet it might sound better being in the chalemeau of the Alto clarinet. Similarly, the often neglected chalemeau of the Eb might sound better than the throat tones of a Bb. Then you find a truly gifted arranger like the Harvey quartet and you get the whole range of all of them. I just wish we could find more arrangements with Eb/Bb/Alto/Bass.
Blake
Arlington, VA
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Author: Peter
Date: 2002-01-15 16:07
Well, as much as I like the alto (I like the soprano and the bass as well) I will admit that it sits between those two others that, perhaps (but not really, depends on how one looks at it) could make the alto an unnecessary burden.
But, as others have pointed out, the sop sax sells big time. That is my confusion with the instrument. It is well accepted by audiences, yet musicians don't use it as much as its sales figures might dictate that it should be used.
Yes, it's a difficult instrument to master, but it's not impossible and it has a great sound.
Todd, curiosity: When you say that, "Jaws dropped, some folks stared." Could it have been because of the great, albeit, different sound?
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Author: ron b
Date: 2002-01-15 16:44
Peter -
The group I have in mind isn't established... yet. I mean, we've played together in a larger (church) group but I haven't approached them with the trio idea. Knowing the two I have in mind, I'm sure they'll be willing to at least give it a try  The only reason I'm not including a bass clarinet is that we don't have one :| It might be a nice touch to have more 'foundation' to the sound, I agree. We'll see. I want to find out how the three of us get along before considering additions.
My primary reason for forming the trio is to play at assisted living and chirdrens recieving home facilities, holiday events etc. in conjunction with other activities so the music must appeal to audiences ranging from advanced in years to quite young. Guitar, clarinet and violin are very mobile with minimal (if any) amplification requirements.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2002-01-15 17:02
I've played alto in band (grade school) and enjoyed it a lot. I was drum major and wanted to play something that I could remain first chair on while neglecting instrument rehearsal and focusing on drum majoring skills. I enjoyed the lessened responsibility but went back to Bb because the music wasn't challenging at all. However, I loved the tone.
Most band directors have told me they don't use altos anymore because the music written for them simply doubles the 3rd clarinet or the alto sax.
Personally, I think the alto clarinet (if played properly) is a much more lovely sounding instrument than the alto sax. Less abrasive and nicer warm tones. I've been thinking of purchasing one--except for that joke about the definition of a nerd.
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2002-01-15 17:16
I'd like to have an alto cl. I am actually considering getting one (maybe the Yamaha). I wonder if I'm going crazy.
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2002-01-15 18:40
Robert (Small),
Yes, you are going crazy. Accept it. Please contact me off-line if you're serious about wanting an alto clarinet. We have a support group for people like you/us.
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2002-01-15 19:00
I have to get off the computer now. They're coming to take me away.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2002-01-15 21:44
I think I've caught the virus. I want an alto clarinet. Let's all call up Woodwind and Brasswind this week and order one. Won't they be surprised?
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Author: GBK
Date: 2002-01-15 22:21
We could even start a new thread: "Has your new alto clarinet cracked?"
I'm sure Mark would just love another out of control poll...GBK
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Author: diz
Date: 2002-01-15 22:30
Should that be "has your alto clarinet therepist cracked, perhaps?" LOL
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Author: Todd
Date: 2002-01-16 01:59
My "therapist" reccomended piano, because one shouldn't have to haul five horns around; and nobody has to take a piano with them. I think that she needs a little time to think about that. After all these are just woodwinds and they have to get out of the case now and then!
Peter, my guess is that they were enchanted by the chalumeau (I hope so anyway).
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Author: Peter
Date: 2002-01-16 02:56
Go for it Brenda!
How about all the BB inmates who want an alto clarinet getting together and making a deal on volume! If you are buying a bunch at one time, surely, you'll get a better price.
(As they say in Greenland, "Oy!")
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Author: Peter
Date: 2002-01-16 06:41
Oh, right, Diz. By the way, what the heck does "Ya" mean?
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2002-01-16 13:59
Peter, I think "volume" on an alto would be 3. I know that would be 3 more than my friend's dealership has sold in the last 25 years.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2002-01-16 19:50
I've been enjoying this sop sax/alto cl discussion from afar, so let me now say a good word for our "ugly stepchild" .I have a VG Selmer-Paris {B series] which ,when I practice it up, has tonality diff. from sop and bass, but more nearly the basset horn character [as best I can recall my B H playing]. I attribute that to the similarity in bore size, mine being .667" [16.94 mm] at the bottom of the neck, .660" [16.76 mm] at the bottom of the UJ. The only figure I have now on the BH is LeBlanc's .709" [18.00 mm] of a number of years ago for BOTH alto and BH, but recall that Selmer's BH is slightly smaller than my alto. Of course playing a BH with a soprano mp could be the major diff. in tonal character even tho both are low-volume insts. I recall earlier discussions of all this and would greatly welcome further info. I did have a curved sop sax, played some Dixie and Ger Band music on it , recall I had to "nurse" some notes into tune, but it had a piercing/human voice character unlike the alto sax. Ah memories! Don
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Author: Peter
Date: 2002-01-16 20:48
Brenda,
That's probably true, but volume is volume, after all.
What is also puzzling about all this, is that some manufacturers still offer alto clarinet models, in spite of the fact that they, supposedly, don't sell!
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2002-01-18 13:32
That is puzzling. And, it's the better brands like Leblanc, Selmer, Buffet and Yamaha--the big 4!
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Author: Sandee
Date: 2002-02-14 03:53
So, I went ahead and bought me a used alto clarinet - Vito, with low e-flat. Very cool sound. The range of the the alto clarinet is more like the range of a tenor sax. Trouble finding reeds, and supporting the horn while I play. After a while, I think I'll get some good tunes out of it....
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