 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bill
Date: 2002-01-03 18:14
An earlier topic lead me to formulate the following question.
Do major orchestras require that their musicians have a college degree in music? Do they even care?
I hope not. I work in the computer industry, and many, many companies require that their computer specialists have a degree, but my experience is that computer programmers either have what it takes or they don't. If they don't, it seems that no number of degrees, training programs, certifications, etc. gets them there. It just takes a certain type of mind. How much more would this be so in the case of music!
When I was in graduate school in mathematics, I knew a sixteen-year-old kid who could have qualified for a masters in mathematics, but as brilliant as he was in mathematics, he was never able to get through freshman English. (His advisor privately expressed the opinion that he would never get through.) This was holding up his undergraduate degree, and hence, his masters. I have no idea whether he ever got a degree, but it is a certainty that his mind is of value to someone in that field. Even so, if he came knocking on the door of the company that I work for now, they would not consider hime for a serious job.
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Author: Kristen D.
Date: 2002-01-03 19:10
It does not matter, though many orchestras will have you send a resume including
your professional performance experience. When it comes down to it though, the
one that plays the best at the audition gets the job... at least that's what they
will have us believe... 
At an audition:
Good players may play poorly.
Inexperienced players may surprise you.
Don't underestimate anybody.
So, keep these words in mind taken
from an insurance slogan...
"You can't predict. You can prepare."
Kristen Denny
GTA: Clarinet, UNL
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Author: allencole
Date: 2002-01-03 20:29
But do the orchestras audition all applicants? If your resume lacked a college degree, it seems to me that it would have to be really outstanding to compete with the cast of thousands who have their Masters.
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Author: Bill
Date: 2002-01-03 20:55
Are you saying that most of the musicians in the top orchestras do have grad degrees?
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Author: Kim
Date: 2002-01-03 21:10
In my opinion, the only degree that even MIGHT be considered equal to or of greater value than professional experience is a degree from Curtis. The only time that orchestras really look at schooling/degrees is when applicants don't have (or barely have) a professional leg to stand on.
Of course college teaching jobs are a whole other ballgame where the reverse is true (at least to some extent).
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Author: Ken
Date: 2002-01-04 02:48
By forced trade I'm a full time concert band clarinet geek, on-call pop rock/jazz band arranger and Dixie freelancer, so I do hope for my sake Mr. Smith or Mr. Combs stops in and truly enlighten us all on the "real-time aspects" of an orchestra audition and selection process. I've never auditioned (or had the world-class talent I desperately sought and failed at) for a major orchestra but I do know in order to land a "desk job" it demands prime musical ingredients and life circumstances all coming together at once. 1) Playing excellence 2) Organizational politics 3) Personal promotion 4) Timing 5) Who you've studied with.
BA, MM, DMA degrees in Performance/Education/Composition or highbrow institutions of learning from bum**** Mississippi lay a fundamental groundwork for the "total package" and read well but in the end just fills squares. Invariably, the rising talent and successful candidate is already studying with a recognized orchestra player or revered college/conservatory professor who's grooming them for the job ... greasing the wheel. Great teachers of any culture, idiom or instrument just as great players still seek, acquire or stumble on their prodigies one body at a time and further build their legacy and tenure.
"What comes out of the bell" in America's and Europe's finest orchestras are still the bottom line. Make no mistake about it; they're all equally as competitive, fair, indiscriminate and consistent in their choices. Normally, auditions are by invitation only, pre-selected and blind on the stand. Selected literature and excerpts for the day are set before the auditionee without benefit of title, articulations, tempo markings and "instrument" key (you must know the piece and correct/traditional instrument to play it on or you're hosed). Auditions and dates aren't always well publicized either, often you need to be in the right circles to even hear about them. As far as I know, anyone upon public announcement can still mail in a resume, audition tape/CD regardless of who they are ... whether it gets heard or considered depends on the front office and who in your camp is pushing it. In some cases, the audition panel already knows whom they want to hire ahead of time and merely goes through the motions ... unless the "juiced in" auditionee falls flat on their face. It's not necessarily that the audition is "fixed", it's because they know precisely what they're looking for; a technical quality, sound, blend and even image that fit the orchestra's present needs. Some proven and renowned players (principal in particular) are offered chairs straight out without an audition ... but no musician in the world gets that kind of gig unless they are a well-established mogul and monster player that can fill the shoes.
It's also common (or it happens) that members already "within the orchestra" either seriously or as a roost will audition for their own section. CSO hornist, Dale Clevinger was famous for doing that ... blind auditioning for a 3rd or Low Horn chair; he got eliminated. There are a host of historical stories; "off the street" players albeit rare still DID and DO walk in from nowhere and get hired in major orchestras. I know at least some years ago maybe 20, Philadelphia and Cleveland actually allotted a block of time on audition days for pre-announced street players. In that same scenario, there was a female bassoonist (don't recall the name) that smoked the audition and blew the current principal player away and got the gig.
Cinderella stories do happen!
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Author: Kim L.
Date: 2002-01-04 03:21
My college professors always say that unless your sightreading and rhythms are impeccable, you WILL NOT get a job playing in a professional orchestra.
Kim L.
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Author: rmk
Date: 2002-01-04 04:09
I"ve never had to sightread at any audition. There may be pieces presented to you that are not on the list, but you are expected to know them anyway.
BTW, they are absolutely correct about impeccable rhythm. You'd be surprised how many applicants can't play a dotted eighth-sixteenth pattern. Also be sure you know the tempo of the excerpt. If you haven't performed it before, get several recordings so you have an idea of what the committee might expect.
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Author: Josh Schultze
Date: 2002-01-04 15:56
Please correct my details if you have heard of this story. In 1999 the NY Philharmonic was auditioning for a clarinetist; second to Stanley Drucker. What I know for sure is that they received thousands of applicantions and tapes and that the auditions took many weeks and were extremely taxing - for the people making the decision. In the end they chose Mark Nuccio who has a masters from Northwestern; he studied with Robert Marcellus. He also held orchestral positions at Pittsburgh and Denver. Which goes to show that having an advanced degree and practical experience is the most common way people land orchestral jobs today.
Josh
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Author: Kim
Date: 2002-01-04 20:00
I really don't think that you can give one example of someone with an advanced degree and deduce that this is the 'most common' way. I can think of lots of musicians in major orchestras with only bachelor's degrees and even a few with less college than that. In fact, I THINK that Morales got his first full-time job (before the Met job, which he got at age 21) when he was 19 or so...a little young to have one's bachelor's degree completed. So for every example of a musician with an advanced degree, lots of examples can be provided of successful ones that don't hold them. Bottom line is, aside from lessons and ensembles, little of what is taught in undergraduate or graduate degree programs is that relevant to being able to play your instrument better.
I listened to a dean from a prominent music conservatory say once that his school was not in the business of training musicians to obtain professional work, that his view of it all was that they were in the buisiness of 'keeping alive the tradition of classical music.' That made me realize that the schools are simply businesses, out to make money.
This is not to say that a degree isn't valuable for other reasons, but it really isn't relevant to getting the orchestral job. That's just what I've observed and experienced personally.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-01-04 20:04
In most cases the ability to study with a really good teacher (one that actually prepares students for jobs) is directly related to a university, college, or conservatory - since that is where they teach!
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Author: Kim
Date: 2002-01-05 01:03
Yes, but in my experience, I have never run into anyone who will only accept students enrolled in the particular college that they teach at. Most professional musicians that teach do not have students that come from the same source (one particular college.) I've even found that clarinetists with full time college teaching jobs still have students coming privately/from different sources.
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