 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: diz
Date: 2001-12-20 03:32
After being subjected to recordings of Russians playing Tchaikowsky (etc etc) and listening to their brass players using vibrato I decided that the "plainer" tone used by their American, British and Australian (for that matter) cousins much more acceptable to my tastes. UNTIL I heard the Neuman recording from the 70s of the New World Symphony of Dvorak (Czech Phil) - where the lovely Czech clarinets (with their delightful reedy sound) use vibrato - I'm now a bit of a convert, I guess.
What do you people think about the use of vibrato on the clarinet in a "classical" context - not talking Jazz here or modern music. Just "classical".
I'd really like to hear if someone else might have heard any of the Czech Philharmonic's recordings and their clarinets use of vibrato. Now as this is NOT a trading sight and if anyone is interested in learning how to obtain these quite rare Supraphon recordings I'll gladly pass on the URL. just email me. The good thing is this company doesn't charge deliver at all!!
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2001-12-20 04:24
You might want to read Jonathan Cohler's article here on Sneezy concerning his opinion about vibrato.
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Author: Jim E.
Date: 2001-12-20 04:49
You might also do a search as this has been discussed many times, but not very recently.
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Author: Joris
Date: 2001-12-20 15:59
I heard that before the fall of the wall the Russians used a more German-like school (vibrato forbidden by all means). After the wall dropped, they overcompensated by doing too much vibrato. (In education this is, personal playing can of course differ.)
My teacher always tells me to play vibrato when it comes naturally, it's no use looking for it or practising it.
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2001-12-20 16:47
I hardly ever hear vibrato used in classical bass clarinet playing (and when I do I usually find it repulsive), but I have a 1991 recording of the Royal Liverpool Philharmonic (a very fine orchestra, by the way) playing Josef Suk's "Asrael" Symphony, and in one of the movements (the 4th, I think) there is a low-register melodic passage for the bass clarinet in unison with the cellos. In this passage the RLPO bass clarinetist uses vibrato to match the style of the cellos. This player has a wonderful sound to begin with, and in this instance his use of vibrato is entirely appropriate (IMHO) and very effective. But I consider this to be an exceptional circumstance, not the norm
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Author: Gretchen
Date: 2001-12-20 21:30
i think it depends on the piece and the composer. Romantic pieces that are a bit lush could use a little vibrato when you feel it necessary...but all the time? I'd prefer not. The clarinet has such a wonderful sound...why change it with a vibrato?
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2001-12-20 23:55
Why can I never stay out of a vibrato discussion? This time my contribution will be an earlier post of mine about some history about vibrato in an attempt to trying to explain what it's all about from a historically stylistic perspective:
About vibrato: Vibrato or tremolo, as it was first called, has always been used on most instruments as a tool to musically express something special or important in a phrase. Also to give life to a sustained note and to color an ending of a phrase or a movement. I am very much in favor of this kind of controlled and subtle use of vibrato that can be the nicest thing to hear.
In the 1890th, vibrato as we know it today, constant vibrato as a part of the sound-production, was not generally accepted anywhere on any instrument, including violin and flute. Towards the end of the century a movement started among avantgardists in France in the shadow of the breakdown of Romanticism to change and "develop" music making as they knew it, by introducing constant vibrato. This started a "civil war" in the world of musicians among avantgardists and traditionalists. As we know, the avantgardists won and that was good, because it pushed this art form out of the locked and severely controlled sound world of Romanticism and became the sound of Expressionism and Impressionism.
My opinion is, that as a musician in a re-producing artform, classical music, we have a responsibility to educate ourselves to a maximum to be faithful to both the score and to the style a piece was written in. This includes a very delicate use of vibrato in music written in the 18th and 19th centuries.
Alphie
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"But before involving myself in a course on which my future was going to depend, I estimated that it was absolutely necessary first to establish my tonal technique on solid foundations and to develop my musical knowledge to a maximum".
(From "The flute and its problems", the chapter about vibrato.)
Marcel Moyce
flute guru
(Moyce was in that "civil war" and against constant use of vibrato)
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Author: diz
Date: 2001-12-21 01:06
In relation to "people" making comments about - this has been discussed before, that's all fine and dandy, but there are some of us who are new to the site and therefore may not no all the history of topics - please be patient and we'll get there eventually!! :-) diz
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2001-12-21 02:46
Diz,
A search before starting a new post is always recommended for all comers - including me. Sometimes the questions has been asked and answered, other times not.
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Author: HAT
Date: 2001-12-21 13:42
For the person who said 'play vibrato when it comes naturally, it's no use looking for it or practising it' let me offer the following. Vibrato is a technique like anything else, and you have to practice doing it and developing the proper muscles that produce it.
Otherwise, you will have no control over the speed or amplitude of the vibrato you ultimately use.
I have no objection to vibrato on the clarinet per se, but I don't much enjoy an uncultured vibrato that has no control or variety.
Listen to a fine oboe player like Marc Lifschey or flutist Julius Baker to get an idea of what I am talking about. Or a great opera singer, for that matter.
Having developed a proper technique, you can then decide when and if to use it in almost any musical circumstance.
David Hattner, NYC
www.northbranchrecords.com
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2001-12-21 14:01
To add to David Hattner's list of "vibratos to emulate", check out the sound of John de Lancie, the former principal oboist of the Philadelphia Orchestra --- he gets my vote for "best vibrato control" ---- he didn't use a constant vibrato, instead, he would often (especially on long tones) start the tone with no vibrato at all, then start the vibrato lightly and slowly, increasing both the speed and amplitude of the vibrato as the note progressed (usually adding a slight crescendo to the note also). Just beautiful. But there were many occasions where he played 'straight' (little or no vibrato) when it made more musical sense. I personally don't care for the constant-speed, continuous heavy vibrato used by many oboists (particularly in Europe) and many flutists. I'm not sure if oboe or flute vibrato can or should translate to the clarinet, but we should still have the mental concept of the sound we're trying to achieve, before we try to implement it physically.
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Author: C@p
Date: 2001-12-21 14:16
Check out the vibrato used by Jack Brymer playing Krommer, Concerto for Clarinet and Orchestra:
The Virtuoso Clarinet
Jack Brymer
Vanguard Classics OVC 8090 ADD
Originally recorded in June, 1966
Remastered in 1995 P and Copr. Omega Record Group, Inc.
It is not a constant vibrato but when used it is delecate and approprate giving a joyous lilt to the music.
C@p
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Author: ur
Date: 2001-12-24 17:16
listen to harold wright on recording
www.bostonrecords.com
that's a natural vibrato
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2001-12-24 17:30
I don't think there's anything "natural" about a vibrato - it takes a lot of time & practice. But Chris, I agree - it "sounds natural".
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Author: ur
Date: 2001-12-25 19:28
my definition of natural and aritificial,
natural: when the vibrato corresponds to the shaping of the phrase
artificial: when the vibrato seems to have less reslationship to the shaping of the phrase
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