 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: R Simpson
Date: 2001-12-15 01:01
Does anyone know what the musical term subtone means?
Any help would be appreciated.
-R Simpson
NDrum2005@aol.com
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Author: Peter
Date: 2001-12-15 21:33
Do you mean "subtonic?"
If you do, it's the flatted seventh degree of the diatonic scale, a whole step below the tonic.
The seventh degree of the major and harmonic minor scale.
AKA: The leading note.
Otherwise, "subtone" is probably the resulting sound you get when beating on the side of a submarine with timpani mallets(?)
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Author: David Pegel
Date: 2001-12-15 23:13
Maybe it's a scientific reference, like "overtone"
Take my two bits of a cent for what its worth.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-12-15 23:17
Peter - I shure didn't know of that "deep 6?" definition , vunderbahr! All I have found is also subtonic [correct as given] . What times I've seen subtone, I've just regarded it as a warning to "play softly" . Don
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Author: Peter
Date: 2001-12-16 05:36
Don,
I always saw "play softly" as "piano," or "very soft" as "pianissimo."
The rest has to do with some now hazy memories of a few pints of bitters, the Blarney Stone, and a night out with the boys while visiting distant relatives in Ireland.
But anyway, I think the Navy uses "sub-tones" to communicate with dolphins to order pizza from Domino's while out to sea. We won't talk about the delivery methods, I understand they are top secret!
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-12-16 18:09
Of course, thats correct, p or pp, or mp . It occured to me that subtone might also mean that the passage might be harmony to a "soft" melody line by another instrument, particularly if the passage were in the chalemeau and that was the way that composer/arranger liked to mark it. Help! Don
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2001-12-16 18:12
The only time I've heard the term "sub tone" was in reference to the grunts a 12th lower that I produce when I mess up.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2001-12-16 19:35
"sub tone" is frequently used as a technique in playing saxophone.
The best way to describe it is playing in the lower register of the saxophone (mostly applied to tenor sax players) and producing a covered, almost breathy sound, with little or no attack.
Coleman Hawkins, among many other jazz greats, extensively used this stylistic technique...GBK
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Author: Peter
Date: 2001-12-16 22:22
Interesting. I play saxophone and had never heard it called "sub tone."
Well, you learn something new every day!
Thanks!
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Author: GBK
Date: 2001-12-16 22:40
Peter...I play saxophone extensively as well (since I was 13).
Playing tenor sax with a great controlled subtone is one of the most difficult aspects of saxophone technique. Effectively used, it shows a fine command of your instrument...GBK
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Author: Peter
Date: 2001-12-16 22:52
I'm vaguely familiar with the technique. I am not good at it. Just never heard of anything called a "sub-tone." I also don't play tenor very much. But it's still interesting info.
I didn't take up the clarinet or the sax until later years, after playing several other instruments (some of which I still play occasionally.)
I'm sure there are a few other items out there I have still to learn about!
Thanks!
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Author: Hiroshi
Date: 2001-12-17 01:04
A tone is a mixture of harmonics. Fundamental tone is the tone we try to emit and governs about 1/2 sound level. Other partials are subtones. By using register key, the fundamental shifts up by 12 wholetones. The old fundamental becomes a subtone in this case. If a horn's register key elevation is too much, a person with a good ears can hear a small and lower tone is sounding like uuuuuu with a higher tone. This is often called a subtone too. The elevation should be 0.6-1.2 mm. See klarinet mailing list archive.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2001-12-17 15:54
Attribute it to senior shyness or whatever, but I hesitated to answer this thinking 'maybe I didn't have it quite right'. Clarinet players probably are not familiar with the term because they don't do 'sub tones'. In my younger years the term was common saxophone shop talk for low whispery (airy) tones, as GBK so adequately explains above. Coleman H. was a master of the technique. Others came close. Some of Bechet's slower clarinet stuff tends toward that effect but nothing, in my opinion, can possibly match the beautiful fat tenor sax sub tone sound 
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Author: Bob Arney
Date: 2001-12-17 16:15
Yeah Ron! Sometimes I think we geezers CAN remember stuff. Sidney who?
Bob A
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-12-17 16:33
TKS all, for the sax relationship, yes S B was great, and I fondly recall standing 2 ft. in front of "Yakety Sax" for at least an hour listening to his beautiful sub tone renditions, sure wish I could play like them !! Don
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Author: ron b
Date: 2001-12-17 17:48
Bob - You 'member ol' Sid, dontcha? Sidney Botchet - tall fella, used to operate the typemetal smelter at the newspaper.
Y' mean Boots Randolf, Don? Seems like we often identify performers by their (one) big hit(s). Beyond that, Boots, in my opinion, was a masterful player indeed.
- ron b))
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Author: Peter
Date: 2001-12-17 20:25
I don't care what anybody says, I'm not going to admit to even remotely remembering any one of these people.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
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Author: Bob Arney
Date: 2001-12-17 21:12
He said: "used to operate the typemetal smelter at the newspaper. " Yeah, the tall guy with all the little burn marks on his shins and trousers. Used to set twice the number of sticks until the union guys shut him down. Threatened to break all his reeds.
Bob A
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-12-17 21:37
Ron - I sure did mean Boots, and was just checking out our "elder-statesmen". TKS, GBK for the link, is there more than the Yak's on it? Don
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Author: GBK
Date: 2001-12-17 21:44
There are lots of sound clips on his site. Click on his music and books, and enjoy.
If you don't already own his "Greatist Hits" album, it would make a great Christmas gift - to yourself...GBK
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Author: Peter
Date: 2001-12-18 05:29
Nice link, GBK, thanks.
I like Boots Randolph, but have precious little of his music.
As I said to Bob Arney recently, when he gave me another neat site for some music we had both been looking for:
When she goes on the warpath, I'm going to tell my wife it's your fault I'm spending more of "her" hard-earned money on more music I don't need. (Around here it's all "her" hard-earned money, regardless of where it came from.)
As they say in Malasya, "Oy, vey!
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Author: GBK
Date: 2001-12-18 05:43
Peter...When I was 13 and was learning to play tenor saxophone, the first saxophone record my parents bought me was Boots Randolph's "Greatist Hits"
It's been MANY years, and I've since worn out that vinyl recording (I did buy a CD however) and just the mention of his name brings back many happy memories.
3 years later I was playing sax gigs in the Catskill mountains, and haven't stopped since. However, clarinet was and still is my passion.
Thank you Boots (and my parents) for sending me down the right path...GBK
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Author: Peter
Date: 2001-12-18 05:48
GBK,
Did you ever get to play at the Red Apple Rest, on Route 17, on the way to places like Monroe, Westpoint and Bear Mountain, etc.?
Somewhat South of the Catskills, but it was quite famous for it's entertainment.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2001-12-18 06:02
Peter...No. I mostly played at the Raleigh, the Granite and the Nevilee (pardon the spelling if it's incorrect) and MANY MANY summer bungalow colonies. It was a great way to learn the real world of making a living as a "pro" (at 16) - and it paid my way through college.
Great memories...GBK
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Author: Peter
Date: 2001-12-18 06:15
What a great experience! Most of those bungalow colonies are gone. At least from my old stomping grounds in Western upstate NY.
There used to be a bunch of them around Monroe, Newburgh, Goshen, Greenwood Lake, etc. They always had parties going during the summer "city folk" seasons. Always lots of all kinds of music.
Well, I've got to go make myself horizontal, I have to meet a major client first thing in the morning. Good chatting with you. We should do it more often.
Enjoy.
Peter
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