 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: C@p
Date: 2001-12-15 16:48
I has been about two weeks since the Larry Combs clinic at International Music Supplies in Des Plaines, Illinois, and I hope I what I put down are accurate recollections the best that I can paraphrase them. Most of what is down here was drafted within a or two of the event. While I have contacted two others who were there to check on my accuracy, please do not hesitate to correct me if you were there and have a different impression of what he said. Now, having made the appropriate disclaimers, here is what I think he said.
He distinguished between the visible and invisible features of the embouchure. The visible are the outside formation of the lips and what you can see of the teeth when the lips are held open. The invisible part is what goes on inside the mouth when the lips are closed around the mouthpiece.
Starting with the outside, he said that the bottom lip should be flat with the rest of the lips curling around the mouthpiece with muscle tension in the upper lip pushing down and towards the center of the top of the mouth piece. Although one is shaping the outside to form the sound of “oooohh,” the bottom lip should not be a spongy cushion for the reed.
The chin should be pulled down making the area between the lip and the bottom of the chin somewhat taut downwards although he did not indicate that you could bounce a quarter off of it. It look a little scrunched up but not bunched up; almost flat but not quite flat.
Continuing with the inside of the mouth, suggested that the lounge should be somewhat arched towards the top of the mouth. This is to direct and focus the airflow in a horizontal column directly to the reed in a flow that is just about as wide as the reed is. The cheeks should not puff out and should rest against the sides of the lounge.
When asked about he “Ooooh Eee” method he asked if we could whistle. Just pucker up and whistle. If you could, then the position of the tongue when the whistle started to develop was the position of the tongue when playing the clarinet. You could notice if you tried to do this with him that your own cheeks were brought to the sides of the lounge which was somewhat flattened out to meet the cheeks. If you part your lips from the whistle position to the mouthpiece position and blew out, you could hear the whistling sound coming out of your mouth. It is not a clear tone, but it is an air whistling noise just the same.
It will help if you know German as he said the “Oooh” is not an English sound but the sound of the German “e” or “u” with an umlaut punctuation mark over it. If you do not know German, this paragraph will not be very helpful.
I asked him about a yawning position for the back of the mouth. He agreed as long as what I was referring to was not in anyway restricting the throat opening.
He talked about breathing. If you breath normally during the day then you know how to breath when playing music with any wind instrument. One important thing is to time your exhale with the first note. If you hold back, you will explode into the first note and most notes do not require that immediate harsh accent. Just breath and the music will flow.
He noted that sometimes you see clarinet players with the left shoulder up. That usually is because the left hand is higher on the instrument. If that is a problem, then carefully put the left hand on the instrument concentrating on not moving the left shoulder. The problem is that it distorts the upper body and interferes with proper breathing.
He demonstrated that whether one is standing or sitting, the back and chest can be in the standing position.
He said that while the lungs have nothing to do with the sound chamber, which stops at the top of the throat, slumping down to relax while playing (or while playing lazily) will not interfere with the tone. However, it will interfere with air flow by interfering with your ability to breath freely and that will interfere with the music.
He discussed the position of the instrument in the mouth. The top teeth should be forward of the bottom teeth. The bottom teeth should be on the “sweet spot” of the reed. Also put pressure on the horn that it presses lightly, but firmly into the front teeth. One should not bite on the reed. If more pressure is needed, angle the bell lower to push the horn down on the bottom lip for more pressure, using the top teeth as support (like a fulcrum). Ideally, there should be no change of any part of the mouth from the very high to the very low notes. Don’t help the sound or response with any other part of the body. Don’t lip it up or down for better response.
When listening to us play, he said that while one can be technically correct in following the score, that does not mean it is music.
To get an example of his teaching style, you can check out the samples of his instructional recordings at: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0000038JY/104-7280298-0141535. He did not say that; I found it by surfing the Internet.
He said he uses Vandoren reeds but has heard good things about the Legere plastic reed. This was not necessarily an endorsement but just a throw out comment about what he had heard.
That is all that I recall at this time. If I remember something else of significance about this clinic I can add it later. Hopefully anyone else who was there can augment (or take issue with) what I have posted or comment on the techniques I have related.
C@p
PS: I have never met him before. My personal impression of him after this event is that he is a first class guy with a keen desire to share what he knows and to make others the best they can be.
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Author: RonD
Date: 2001-12-15 19:27
Thank for the recap its very helpful. I wanted to attend but was reluctant since I have been only playing just over a year after a loooong absence. I did not want to be the cause of some more advanced player not being able to attend. I understand that the clinic was not 100% fully attended. I will try to make the next one .
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-12-15 19:38
I got the invitation, but since I live in Texas, it wasn't exactly convenient to attend. Leblanc was anxious to sponsor because they were hoping to sell some clarinets. Did they bring any Symphonie VIIs? I'm looking to buy another one (I sold my old one) if I could find one that was of high quality.
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Author: LOL
Date: 2001-12-16 00:29
And who are you RonD? Quite a cocky thing to say....let's just hope you can live up to ur big mouth
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Author: LOL
Date: 2001-12-16 01:04
Re: I did not want to be the cause of some more advanced player not being able to attend.
Im talking about that. How can he judge the level of playing of advanced players? im sure advanced players would play alot better then some geezer who hasn't played for a year
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Author: sarah
Date: 2001-12-16 01:17
"im sure advanced players would play alot better then some geezer who hasn't played for a year"
This is one of the rudest things I have ever heard on this board. Ron was not judging other players, he said that he didn't want to go when there were a lot of others that would also like to go. LOL, scroll up are read what he said again. Ron was actually being nice.
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Author: Mary
Date: 2001-12-16 02:30
I really appreciated hearing what Combs had to say!
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Author: RonD
Date: 2001-12-16 03:09
To LOL I think its time for you to stop your drinking or drug use and smarten up.
Its obvious that you can't read very well.
If you wish to be so obnoxious don't hide your idenity and include your email address or find some other place to haunt.
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Author: LOL
Date: 2001-12-16 04:41
RonD, go take some clarinet lessons
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Author: RonD
Date: 2001-12-16 04:59
LOL What is your name and e mail address?? Or are you going to continue to hide in cyber space like some coward?????
This board can do very well without a jerk like you that get his thrills from insulting people and then crawling back into some dark hole.
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Author: LOL
Date: 2001-12-16 05:14
LOL. Internet is a joke. RonD, would you like to hear me play? Do you doubt my clarinet skills? send me your address, fool, don't waste your time with me
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Author: C@p
Date: 2001-12-16 06:28
RonD: I am in the same boat as far as long layoffs go. I have found out in general that people want to help but they won’t unless you ask them. Sometimes, if you are not sure, your motto has to be: Let someone else say “no.”
Jack Canfield (if you don’t know who he is, don’t worry about it) once recalled the story of Walt Disney’s version of Bambi. Bambi was at one edge of the clearing looking at the mighty elder buck afraid to approach him for what use would such an experienced buck have for just a little squirt. At the other edge was the elder buck who looked at Bambi wondering if he would appreciate anything that such an old creature would have to say.
In like manner, I find that if you approach the unapproachable you generally will find that your thinking the other can help will cause sincere flattery and result in a wealth of information to be volunteered. In fact, I noticed that, for the most part, is one of the recurring themes I pick up from this board.
Combs was as patient with all questions. In fact it seemed to me that the more experienced asked fewer questions and were as interested in his teaching methods as the substance of his talk. (I forgot to mention that he emphasized that any clarinetist with any experience will eventually teach and probaly learn as much from the student as the student will learn from the teacher.)
The clinic was not 100% attended. However, they asked for you to call in for a reservation with what appeared to be the attitude of first come first served. You could not take the place of someone who did not have the interest to ask for a reserved seat.
Brenda: You ask: “Did they bring any Symphonie VIIs?” Yes. It was among the 15 or so horns available to be “tasted.” Most who played it felt it was a fabulous horn. If I recall correctly, Larry said he had never played it before that date (which was in fact one week ago, not two as Peter pointed out) and he liked it. I found it easy to play except for the new left handed Eb/G# key. It is more difficult, at least for me, than the Buffet Festival or the Selmer Signature. But I would encourage you to seek one out and try it.
I note that of the 6 of the 14 replies that deal with the topic, no one has commented on whether they have heard similar or dissimilar theories on embouchure, breathing position while playing, helping the tone or response, etc. and I would be pleased to read your comments as to how what was covered at the clinic compares to what you understand to be correct techniques.
C@p
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Author: LOL
Date: 2001-12-16 10:13
C@P is a generous and fair guy.....Got my respect =-)
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-12-16 14:39
Thanks for the info. I am going to call Lisa Monday and see if I can get that Symphonie VII that Combs used. I've tried some that fell short in quality, and I'm sure that one must have been good or Larry wouldn't have liked it. I hear he doesn't like his Opus II very much and is having a hard time getting used to it. Perhaps it's because he's attached to his old Opus, but I've played the Opus II and liked the tone a lot! There have been many complaints about Leblanc quality lately.
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Author: Peter
Date: 2001-12-16 15:53
C@p, I don't really have enough of an opinion on "...theories on embouchure, breathing position while playing, helping the tone or response, etc.," to offer it, especially in light of Larry Combs position in life, as opposed to mine.
The only thing I can say is simply that, whenever I get information such as you shared with us, and which I consider valid for whatever reason, I try it out to see if it suits me and/or helps to improve my technique (which needs all the help it can get!)
I will do so with your info, and thanks again, as I said, it was excellent.
LOL: If you are going to try and depose me as the BB "bad guy" you are going to have to do better than that.
First, be man enough to put your real name and e-mail address out there.
Second, pick your subjects better and approach them in a way that you can, at least, put forth some facsimile of a legitimate claim to be correct in your thinking.
Third, learn to write in a more sophisticated manner that at least, can give you more credibility than the erroneous and amaturish dribble you wrote here.
And fourth, yes, learn to correctly interpret what people are saying when you read, and before you commit yourself through a posted answer!
As it stands, all you did was assign yourself the part of the fool.
And if RonD doesn't, I doubt your clarinet skills and, furthermore, I think I know who you are, and if I am correct, you are a fool!
BTW, while I would have probably just gone to the clinic, I do admire Ron D's thinking. There just could have been other, perhaps, more advanced students, and such, working towards a carreer in music and more in need of attending the clinic @ IMS who might been able to have profit more from it than Ron D.
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Author: William
Date: 2001-12-16 16:31
Ditto on Larry being a first class individual. But I am a bit confused by your account of his comment on Legere reeds. I attended his IMS clinic last year, and he played the entire clinic on a Legere reed. In fact, he stated that he would "never use this reed with the symphony (CSO), but that it was nice to know that there was always a reed in my case that worked." Apparently, a year ago he knew quite a little about the reeds. He was also using a VanDoren Optimum lig with the parallel rail insert, which he recommended--but I think that in the CSO, he uses a Bonade. Perhaps, part of presenting a clinic at IMS includes promoting some of the products on sale--which is understandable--but Larry Combs, who I first met when he had just taken the job in Chicago, is a real professional, but yet, down-to earth accessable individual who deserves the reputation he has as "one of the best there is." I would have attended this year as well, but my wife had other plans................(next year) Good Clarineting, and good reporting--thanks!!!!
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Author: LOL
Date: 2001-12-16 19:27
ok peter. I was fooling around all along, but you really think you know who I am? I don't know any peter, unless your buff and your korean. LOL
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Author: sarah
Date: 2001-12-16 20:07
LOL-I don't care who you are, how you play, or anything else about you. What you said was rude and ignorant. And most of all, NOT funny.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-12-16 21:07
I'm wondering if Mark would begin deleting those remarks without return addresses such as LOL's? Why should we have to suffer the verbal abuse of cowards and those who have no self-discipline?
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2001-12-16 21:51
No, I won't delete them. There are many reasons for people not wanting their email address known. Unfortunately, being crass and rude seem to be one of the reasons ...
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Author: LOL
Date: 2001-12-16 23:19
these posts are a joke.....I'm done with sneezy.....for the best of everyone, goodbye! LOL
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Author: jeff
Date: 2001-12-17 06:29
Hello
I really enjoyed your report and have often wanted to attend ims clinics but could not do to rehearsals. I have read many similar ideas regarding the embouchure position that you talked about above. There is a Marcellus article that i read and he explains his embouchure as a triangle. The bottom lip is the base and the tip goes towards the chin. Then he stated that he thought of having a cleff(spelling) in his chin. so that sounds a lot like the bottom lip that Mr. Combs described. Also, about the top lip Marcellus stated about the same thing as regards to exerting slight pressure down. He also stated that he experimented with double lip for a few seasons in Cleveland. The double lip has that lip position naturally. He may haev learned this in his studies with bonade, as bonade was said to be able to play with either embouchure effortlessly. I hope that this helps a little.
thanks
jeff
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2001-12-17 15:39
C@p,
First of all thanks for the report. It is very clear and extremely helpful.
It more or less correlates with what my teachers and my own personal experience have taught me.
I have to try the bell motion for lip pressure it sounds like a great thing to do?
The left shoulder stress is also a very helpful point.
Did he talk about tonguing and embouchure?
Is there anything special he does that helps preserving the quality of the sound while tonguing?
Also did he talk about motion of the tongue, while changing registers?
It seems to me that the tongue needs to be arched slightly higher as one goes up the scale.
Thanks again fopr the input, this post if it wasn't for LOL is one of the most helpful I've seen on this board.
-S
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-12-17 19:54
Yes, thanks. I just called Lisa and purchased the Symphonie VII. It'll be here tomorrow. She said it was the finest one she had ever seen and Larry Combs liked it a lot. So, that's enough for me. I've been wanting to buy another one for a long time but didn't want to get a bad one. I was hoping there would be one set up to perfection for that clinic.
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Author: C@p
Date: 2001-12-21 13:25
Sylvian
You posted:
"Did he talk about tonguing and embouchure?
Is there anything special he does that helps preserving the quality of the sound while tonguing?
"Also did he talk about motion of the tongue, while changing registers?
It seems to me that the tongue needs to be arched slightly higher as one goes up the scale."
As you might see by my earlier report of what Larry Combs said at his clinic, there were a lot of things that he covered. He did cover tonguing and that part is the least clear on my mind. In fact, I forgot to mention it in my post.
What I remember is that he does not advocate tonguing at the very tip of the reed but to come from below and touch just below the tip of the reed.
I don't remember a discussion about tonguing and embouchure as they might be specifically related to each other.
He felt that the quality of the sound is greatly related to breathing and embouchure which I already reported. He said that as one goes up and down the scale or changes registers there should be no help from the body except to press down on the lower lip by moving the bell of the clarinet down and pushing the upper lip down and to the middle while not changing the pressure from either the upper or lower teeth. I know he said the tongue is arched but I do not recall any comments about changing the arch once the "whistle" position was in place.
Beyond that I do not remember much except that he was asked about double tonging and circular breathing. He never became proficient at circular breathing and when there is an extremely fast passage that calls for double tonguing, he "cheats" (his word) by tonguing two and then slurring two.
William
You posted: " I attended his IMS clinic last year, and he played the entire clinic on a Legere reed."
I thought he said that he never had tried the Legere reed but I could have been mistaken in my recollection. I guess the bottom line is that he did not speak unfavorably about them when non-wood reeds were asked about. I wish I could recall better for you.
Peter
You posted: "
" BTW, while I would have probably just gone to the clinic, I do admire Ron D's thinking. There just could have been other, perhaps, more advanced students, and such, working towards a carreer in music and more in need of attending the clinic @ IMS who might been able to have profit more from it than Ron D."
My comments on whether Ron D should have gone were not meant to detract from the fact that his thinking showed a lack of selfishness and a certain amount of generosity to not take the seat of someone who might benefit more than he from the experience. I would guess that Ron probably has this giving attitude not only during this particular holiday season.
C@p
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Author: Peter
Date: 2001-12-21 15:25
Hi C@p,
I did not find anything wrong with your comment. My comment was aimed at the LOL idiot who ragged Ron D for being a nice person, in this respect.
Thnks again for a neat report.
Peter
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Author: C@p
Date: 2001-12-21 23:38
William
You posted: " I attended his IMS clinic last year, and he played the entire clinic on a Legere reed."
I guess I heard wrong. At http://www.legere.com/news.htm it is clear that Larry Combs has used Légére reeds. On the comments page he is quoted:
“I still use cane reeds for performance, but I have used Légére reeds in many other situations. I like them for teaching, since they don't dry out between demonstrations."
C@p
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