 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: C@p
Date: 2001-12-13 03:24
I am reading out of Carl Baermann's Op 63 Complete Celebrated Method for Clarinet by Gustav Langenus, Carl Fisher Copr. 1917, page 1, A Minor scale.
Why does it go up in A Minor and come down in C Major?
C@p
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Author: sarah
Date: 2001-12-13 04:00
That is melodic minor. On the way up the 6th and 7th scale degrees are raised from natural minor. Going back down everything returns to natural minor.
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Author: C@p
Date: 2001-12-13 04:29
Sarah
I have the feeling that you answered my question correctly.
But not being one who ever studied music theory, I still do not know why the change; why not just go down the way it went up? It seemt that there an underlying purpose I am still missing.
C@o
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Author: GBK
Date: 2001-12-13 04:46
C@P...Click on this link, find minor scales, and you will receive a very basic 2 minute lesson on the differences of the three forms, and the reasons for each. They actually use A minor in their example...Hope that this helps...It is actually easier to see it on the staff with comments, rather than try to just explain it...Try the quick tutorial...GBK
http://www.musictheory.net/
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Author: bob gardner
Date: 2001-12-13 05:29
If it goes up and down the same then it is a harmonic scale. If it changes going and return to normal on the may down it is a melodic scale.
This stuff is enough to drive one crazy.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2001-12-13 05:45
Bob...don't forget that the natural minor scale also ascends and descends the same.
The harmonic minor ascends and descends the same, but has the raised 7th degree.
The melodic minor, as Sarah correctly pointed out, has a raised 6th and 7th degree ascending, but is natural minor on the descent...GBK
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Author: C@p
Date: 2001-12-13 14:59
GBK wrote:
"C@P...Click on this link, find minor scales, and you will receive a very basic 2 minute lesson on the differences of the three forms, and the reasons for each. They actually use A minor in their example...Hope that this helps...It is actually easier to see it on the staff with comments, rather than try to just explain it...Try the quick tutorial...GBK "
I got through the first set of lessons and learned two things: The general basics of music theory expalined in those lessons and that I have to go back over it again and spend more time with it.
It noted that composer prefer to go up one way and come down the other way (I forgot to which scales the lesson was referring). I can see the relevance of the scale I started out with going up and coming down differently as matter of getting familiar with that composition pattern.
I guess the answer to my question is another question: Why practice something going down the same way as going up when most music is composed with the different way of going down.
Am I getting close?
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Author: Rene
Date: 2001-12-13 15:24
The page does not answer the question, why composers go up another way than down. Wasn't that your question?
This is done to lead towards the basic tone (tonica). In C minor, the B has a strong tendency to be followed by the C. If you play F, Eb, D, C, B, C you will notice this. Of course, this only applies upwards, from B to C. Actually, the sequence F, Eb, D, C, Bb, C is a Bb major scale, and feels completely different. To get home to C minor, there has to be a B.
The Ab is raised as a consequence to avoid an unnaturally big step between Ab and B.
Hope this helps.
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Author: Mario
Date: 2001-12-13 18:08
For what it is worth... and very unqualified.
When one goes up, raising the pitch toward the goal seems to create a healthy musical tension in the phrase. By the same token, flattening on the way down seems to amplify the drive toward a proper resolution of the phrase. It is very subjective and probably cultural.
When I play jazz, I rarely worry about analysis of chords and the like since this kind of "intellectualization" of the improvisation sequence defeats the purpose of a spontaneous and creative performance. Knowing about chords can be used of course to solve specific problems, but should not frame fully the way we go around developing a solo. I tend to work around the melody much more than around the chords (i.e.: I keep the melody in my mind much more than I keep chord progressions in mind).
So, a trick I often use: I put sharps here and there (especially on the notes just below the notes of the melody) when I go up; put flats here and there when I go down (especially on the notes just above the notes of the melody). This might seem crude and simplistic but try it and you will be surprised. Even (accidental) notes that do not fit in the chordal structures will sound "right and interesting" in this kind of context. This trick seems to be able to build and maintain a high degree of energy, and is a quick way to noddle around when the creativity is lacking.
Try is with a simple melody augmented this way. The phrase sounds jazzy already but the reference melody is not lost (a difficult thing to accomplished: anybody can improvise on chords... but to have the melody still shining though in the middle of a fast-paced improvisation is much tougher).
Real jazz pro out there might find this primitive. But it has often worked for me.
As to why minor scales are played differently up and down, I suspect that it is because they simply felt better that way 300 years ago when people started inventing the musical fragments we now use all the time today.
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Author: sarah
Date: 2001-12-14 00:30
Quick lesson:
In the natural minor mode, the chord built on the fifth scale degree is minor. In *most * cases, composers raise the third of this chord to make it a major chord. This note is now the RAISED seventh scale degree in the natural minor scale. This scale is called harmonic minor, because it is used to change harmony. The seventh scale degree is also the leading tone and wants to resolve to one. But when singing this scale (or playing it) there is a awkward jump of an augmented second between the sixth and raised seventh scale degrees. To correct this, the sixth scale degree is raised (melodic minor). Coming back down there is no need to raise the leading tone as there is no real "pull" to the next note. So going back down the harmonic and melodic minor scales go back to natural minor.
Example:
In the key of a natural minor, the chord built on the fifth scale degree is is e minor (e g b). For chord progressions purposes, the chord build on the fifth scale degree is often major. So the chord becomes e #g b. The #g is the raised seventh of the a natural minor scale, and it now become a harmonic minor (a b c d e f #g a g f e d c b a). Then when the sixth scale degree (f) is raised, the scale becomes melodic minor (a b c d e #f #g a g f e d c b a). They both revert back to natural minor on the way down.
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Author: Hiroshi
Date: 2001-12-14 04:00
C major is the oldest mode back to ancient greek. Natural minor scale is called Aelion mode. I do not know when it started.
You can read an interesting explanation by a composer.
Mario: Lydian Chramatic Concept of Tonal Organization by George Russel is a condensed theory and respected by many Jazz musicians. It may deepen one's improvisation.
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Author: Hiroshi
Date: 2001-12-14 04:01
http://www.afn.org/~afn54096/mus-theor/Intro.html
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Author: Hiroshi
Date: 2001-12-14 04:45
He at last issued 4th and final edition of his book recently.
http://www.georgerussell.com/lc.html
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