 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: steve
Date: 1999-06-14 19:11
Here's a thread to stir up trouble....it's general knowledge that buffet, leblanc, selmer, rossi, howarth, eaton, etc..and kaspar, pyne, smith, gennusa, etc...and vandoren, and zonda, and non-existent morree from the 1960's....and undercut tone holes by moenning/brannen, etc....will allow you to enhance your natural talents and become marcelluswrightcombs.....and this will be impossible if you don't use this type of equipment....
I would like to suggest that no one can sound like marcelluswrightcombs because they're not marcelluswrightcombs.....and equipment really plays a very small part in the scheme of things....except as a personal preference, and what you hear/feel may not be what the audience hears/feels....in fact, as my old teacher jerry stowell used to say, the most important equipment is north of the tip of the reed....
one of the most beautiful 1re rhapsodie performances I've heard was done by Vincent Abato playing a plastic bundy horn, rico reed, and bundt stock mp at a conference in ohio years ago....
is equipment really as important as we think it is?
any comments???
s.
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Author: Dee
Date: 1999-06-14 19:28
This topic has been beat to death many times on this board. The end result has been that a pro sounds like a pro on anything and a tyro sounds like a tyro on anything. However, good quality equipment is always a joy to use and makes it easier to achieve one's goals. If a person can afford it, it is worthwhile to invest in it. However just because one cannot afford the top of the line is no reason to not enjoy playing. Nor should it ever be an excuse for not doing one's best (i.e. comments like "why practice, I can't get better on this junk" just won't fly in my book).
It is much more work to play in tune throughout the clarinet range on a poorly designed horn. The wrong mouthpiece or one poorly matched to the horn can force you to struggle with chronic sharpness or flatness. Poorly made reeds can be chronic squeakers or can make it difficult to achieve a good staccato or can be stuffy or thin sounding. I've even seen some reeds that were so poorly finished that they even had splinters!
All these things can be overcome, of course, but better equipment makes life easier.
In my opinion, here is the order of importance of equipment.
1. THE PLAYER
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Author: Dee
Date: 1999-06-14 19:38
This topic has been beat to death many times on this board. The end result has been that a pro sounds like a pro on anything and a tyro sounds like a tyro on anything. However, good quality equipment is always a joy to use and makes it easier to achieve one's goals. It also helps a person stay motivated if they are not "fighting" their equipment. If a person can afford high quality equipment, it is worthwhile to invest in it. However just because one cannot afford the top of the line is no reason to not enjoy playing. Nor should it ever be an excuse for not doing one's best (i.e. comments like "why practice, I can't get better on this junk" just won't fly in my book).
It is much more work to play in tune throughout the clarinet range on a poorly designed horn. The wrong mouthpiece or one poorly matched to the horn can force you to struggle with chronic sharpness or flatness. Poorly made reeds can be chronic squeakers or can make it difficult to achieve a good staccato or can be stuffy or thin sounding. I've even seen some reeds that were so poorly finished that they even had splinters!
All these things can be overcome, of course, but better equipment makes life easier.
In my personal opinion, here is the order of importance of equipment.
1. THE PLAYER (embouchure and breath support especially)
2. The reed
3. The mouthpiece
4. Proper matching of mouthpiece/reed/ligature
5. Ligature, barrel
6. The clarinet itself
Notice that, with the exception of the player, the most important items are the least expensive ones. An average or beginning player can reap a great deal of benefit from just getting good quality reeds of the right strength for them and can benefit greatly from a good mouthpiece. These two represent the quantum leaps. The last two on the list (5 and 6) could be considered more in the nature of incremental changes to get that last little bit of performance ability.
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Author: Dee
Date: 1999-06-14 19:39
Hit the wrong key accidentally and posted before I was finished!
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Author: paul
Date: 1999-06-14 21:32
...'nuff said.
If you are that good, even a half rotten garden hose will sound great.
All of the technical tricks that an instrument maker does to make a horn look or sound good are nice, believe me, really nice. But, your point is well taken. For the ones who are that proficient in the art of the clarinet, the equipment is almost insignificant. Rather, knowing how to get the most out of what you already have is the key to success.
For instance, I'm an adult novice with a great set up (premium this, pro-grade that, etc.). I have some great stuff, but I still sound and play, well, like an adult novice. Now, in the hands of a consummate pro, all of my goodies sound like they belong in Carnegie Hall. You're right. The most important equipment surrounds the clarinet with fingers and resides mainly north of the tip of the reed.
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Author: Nicole Y.
Date: 1999-06-14 22:09
Hi!
I would have to say yes and no. Yes, 'cause I can definitely hear the difference between the sounds I make on my plastic Vito and my Leblanc Noblet. No, 'cause I went against people with WOODEN clarinets during Regionals and did better than most of them. So I have to say that it does matter to a point, but practice, the joy of playing, and the will to play WELL will probably even out the score. I remember at Concert Festival practice, a 10th grade player (she's now at the Governor's School for the Arts) showing us how to push from the bottoms of our diaphragms (sp?) with a borrowed plastic Bundy, and NO ligature (you heard right, NO ligature). And even though she was on that setup, she sounded a LOT better than most of us! So, it does matter, but a person's ability to play evens out the score.
the rising freshman,
Nicole Y.
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Author: steve
Date: 1999-06-15 13:58
I liked the list on your 1st post better
importance:
1. the player
regards, s.
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Author: Timothy Leary
Date: 1999-06-15 21:22
no, but seriously. All I do is talk crap about my horns, but when it comes down to it it's about oneself. with the exeption of my yet to be overhauled bass clarinet.
This also leaves room for appreciation of improvisation, the most over neglected aspect of music (I will debate this, gladly). An improvisor isn't forced to take a path if his pad falls out, he can work around it, even employ it to further the expression of life in the moment! You can do this with a broken reed or no reed! 9 times out of ten I'd rather listen to YOU create something rather than fumble your way through someone elses ideas, especialy Mozart's! Hearing the real you would challenge me to put aside judgement and listen with fresh ears. Turn on , tune up, and drop out.....that's a joke.
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Author: Erik Doughty
Date: 1999-06-15 22:27
Hmmmm. I'd submit the voice of my experience. When in clarinet lessons my tutor got frustrated with me and tried to show me on her horn what she was doing on her own pro-grade clarinet, she ended up out of breath saying, "Wow, that's really hard!" And when I tried her prograde clarinet everything suddenly worked with a lot less effort. It was wonderful. So IMO the nifty equipment can be a great help, in some cases, if you can afford it.
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Author: Dee
Date: 1999-06-15 23:58
Erik Doughty wrote:
-------------------------------
Hmmmm. I'd submit the voice of my experience. When in clarinet lessons my tutor got frustrated with me and tried to show me on her horn what she was doing on her own pro-grade clarinet, she ended up out of breath saying, "Wow, that's really hard!" And when I tried her prograde clarinet everything suddenly worked with a lot less effort. It was wonderful. So IMO the nifty equipment can be a great help, in some cases, if you can afford it.
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However if it was that hard to blow, you almost certainly had some leaks. That can happen to any horn regardless of whether it is a pro grade or a no name beginner horn. I have long since lost count of the number of friends that have told me their horns were hard to blow and when checked they leaked like a sieve. Simple adjustments and a few new pads made all the difference. Often times people just don't seem to realize that instruments (including beginner models) need proper maintenance. Sometimes even teachers forget to check this and think that a new instrument is the only solution.
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Author: paul
Date: 1999-06-16 15:59
Dee nailed it for me, too.
I purchased a brand new premium pro grade clarinet a few years ago. In my unskilled hands, it played worse than my old piece of junk plastic horn that I fetched out of the attic after 20 years of nearly unprotected storage. I took the new horn to the shop for some much needed adjustments. Pads were leaking, parts didn't fit exactly right, keys didn't fit my fingers, etc. I took the horn to my professional tutor for further fine tuning. After a year of getting used to the horn and adjusting it, I finally had something that was worth the investment. Now, after a few years of continual use, I have something that is nearly priceless to me personally. I guess we finally got to know each other well enough to create music together.
Does this sound familiar?
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Author: Erik Doughty
Date: 1999-06-16 17:05
Hmmmmmm. I'm not sure that leaking was the problem. Every year (at LEAST) we took that horn to the music store for a tuneup (pardon the pun) since there was a service contract that came with the clarinet. So it was always in good repair-- I don't know how it could have gotten THAT leaky that quickly.
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Author: Dee
Date: 1999-06-16 17:29
It's really quite easy to knock the keys out of alignment.
Also I find that most technicians have stronger hands than I do and when they play the instrument, it's fine but when I play, it leaks. These days, I always test it before I leave and make the tech readjust it.
There are of course other possibilities such as a mouthpiece that didn't suit you (whether or not it was suitable for some one else doesn't matter), or reeds that weren't right for you, or a mis-match of mouthpiece/reed/ligature. Student horns are deliberately made EASY to blow. If yours didn't, something was not the way it should have been.
These things are important. For example, when I got my Vandoren 5RV mouthpiece, I had to change ligatures. My fabric Rover (which was wonderful on my B45) dampened the reed vibrations so much that I could hardly blow my horn. I switched to a plastic Luyben that I laying around and it cleared right up.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 1999-06-16 19:20
Yes, Paul, its sure familiar, and Dee, excellent advice. A friend-repairman in Durango, CO has a sign over his shop door "Miracle Worker", appropro in my experience playing and repairing!! Don
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Author: steve
Date: 1999-06-17 13:53
I liked the post about you and your horn getting to know each other...I had a friend, a superb saxophone player, who had a beautiful selmer mark VI alto that everyone raved about....the horn just didn't like him, my friend said, and after a year of struggle, he let it find a new home...;)
s.
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Author: mike
Date: 1999-06-18 04:12
i also have to agree.....it is not somuch the horn, but the blower......i use to always here that "practice makes perfect" again, that also is not totally true....."perfect practice, makes perfect"
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