 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Lelia
Date: 1999-06-11 16:43
Last weekend at a flea market, I couldn't resist a "vintage" cornet (silver-plated H. N. White "King Master Model," a pro cornet with a serial number that dates it to 1936 or 1937), filthy, stinky, but basically in playable condition. Naturally I figured I could sell it for more if I cleaned it up and de-loused the case. Once I cleaned it, I no longer wanted to sell it. Minor detail: I don't know how to play cornet. However, I did already own the enormous Arban's lesson book, which I used to learn double- and triple-tongueing on clarinet and sax, so naturally....
Well, one thing I've noticed is that the required embouchure is vastly different than what's necessary for single reed instruments. After three days of hooting and blatting incompetently into the cornet (to the horror of Shadow, my cat, who is threatening to move in with the neighbors...), the muscles in my cheeks are sore and I've got a swollen lower lip. For now, anyway, the bum lip interferes with clarinet playing. The temporary soreness seems to predict that if I do go ahead and take some cornet lessons, the new embouchure will alter the muscles in my face. So here's the question: Is that bad? Will playing cornet mess up my clarinet and sax embouchure? Do people double on these instruments?
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Author: Dave Goss
Date: 1999-06-11 17:31
I'm a music education major and as a result I need to learn to play every instrument. Clarinet is my primary and I figured learning to play trumpet/cornet will help me.
Anyway. I have done a few performances on trumpet, I just sit on the 3rd parts. I find it EXTREMELY difficult to go directly from playing trumpet to clarinet. I always make sure I have a few hours to rest. I really don't know if I can do dammage to my clarinet embouchure.
As for tips for learning to play trumpet.... Play long tones, middle C to G to start, EVERY day in short practices sessions 15 mins MAX three times a day. Lessons are a good idea, changing a poor embouchure on trumpet is a lot more difficult than on clarinet. This type of practice is good for the beginning player or the pro. It will build the muscles and allow you to play higher. Yes, if you want to learn to play high, play lots of low notes.
I hope the provides some help. Good luck!
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Author: ron
Date: 1999-06-11 18:54
Excellent advice, Dave -
I, too, have played cornet as well as clarinet (my first love, musically speaking). For me that's ancient history. I'm in the process now of getting back in shape to play the clarinet. Also am getting the cornet back in shape to be played. Both require step by step proceedures. I never found any conflict switching between the two instruments. Of course, I never become as proficient on either as I thought I was going to be either!
My contribution to this subject, if I may, is to not overdo it in the initial excitement of trying something new. You can strain muscles that way. Anything you do for the fun of it, musically, will not hurt you. If you do it methodically at first (Is that the reason practice books are called 'methods'?) you should be all right. Trumpet/cornet fingerings are not difficult to learn in a very short time. I would suggest first of all that you make sure the horn is in playable condition. Nothing's more frustrating than trying to play a bum, out of adjustment instrument. Then, most of all, have fun at it. Wish I could say the same to Shadow about this -- but that's a whole different matter. An extra treat, maybe?
From the way you describe the horn, Lelia, it's probably an OK instrument. Have fun with it.
Ron
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Author: Shooter McGavin
Date: 1999-06-11 20:18
The legendary Ira Sulliven from Chicago doubles reed and trumpet (I think flute, too). He did that in 50's with Blakey's Jazz Messengers and played very well. I've heard that trumpeter Red Rodney (played with Bird) could also play some good sax. If somebody told Ira Sulliven it would blow his chops to double, he didn't listen!
I know for my lips I could use some more muscle up top for control without bite. I bet it would help but be a little confusing for your body at first.
But forget the lips, how do you double toungue? I try and try but I can't think (ta ki ta ki ta ki) or whatever, my tongue doesn't buy it. My "ki" is all the way back and choaks up the airstream. Please share?
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Author: Kerri
Date: 1999-06-11 22:33
I have been playing clarinet for 5 years and right now am learning to play the mellophone for marching band. The mello is similar to a trumpet. The first couple of days with it, I found it hard. But after taking some lessons I'm quite ok on it. The thing is to remember to keep your lips rolled in and to keep your lips even with each other (don't let the bottom lip be further back than the front lip). I heard from someone that learning a brass instrument will mess up your clarinet embrouchure, but I have no problem so I guess it's just one of those myths.
Good Luck, hope this helps!
Kerri
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Author: Lelia
Date: 1999-06-12 01:34
Shooter McGavin wrote:
-------------------------------
But forget the lips, how do you double toungue? I try and try but I can't think (ta ki ta ki ta ki) or whatever, my tongue doesn't buy it. My "ki" is all the way back and choaks up the airstream. Please share?
How well it works may depend a lot on individual mouth structure, but what works for me is to keep my tongue off the reed completely. For double-tongueing, I "click" the tip of the tongue on the ridge of gums behind the top teeth for the "ta" and click the back of the tongue on the soft palate for the "ka". I have a slight overbite and that ridge of gums is prominent, so the motion comes pretty easily. I do triple tongueing basically the same way. Whether I do it as "ti-ti-ki, ti-ti-ki" or "ta-ka-tah, ta-kah-ta" or whatever depends on whether or not (or where) there's an accent in the phrase. If there's a triplet with a heavy accent on the last note, for instance, I tongue it as "tuh-tuh-KAH, tuh-tuh-KAH," opening the throat more on the "KAH" so that it resonates more. If there's no accent and I want the triplets fast and even, I've found the easiest way is "ti-ti-ki, ti-ti-ki," keeping the shape of the mouth as similar as possible on all three. Slow practice with the Arban cornet method book was the only way I could learn, and knowing how to double- and triple-tongue slowly actually comes in very handy as a phrasing device.
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Author: Lelia
Date: 1999-06-12 01:38
I appreciate the help! These suggestions make a lot of sense. Steep learning curve ahead, I think....
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Author: donn
Date: 1999-06-15 20:17
Try TU KU TU KU FOR DOUBLE AND TU TU KU TU TU KU for triple.
Works much better for me
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Author: Merry
Date: 1999-06-16 00:12
I learned clarinet when I was in high school but after University moved to a town that only had a brass band. I was left with the choice of playing my clarinet by myself at home or learning a brass instrument and being part of an ensemble. Well, playing my yourself is only so much fun so I tinker at home on my clarinet and do a bit of teaching so I don't lose touch with it but I started learning cornet two and a half years ago. I played cornet for a year moved to flugelhorn for about 4 months and now play a tenor horn.
I don't think that playing brass has effected my clarinet embouchure at all. No matter how long I have been playing my tenor horn I can pick my clarinet up and blow it fine but I do have a few troubles if I do it the other way around. Cornet is a tough little instrument, you actually have to make the sounds with your lips without a reed doing the hard work for you. On the bright side the fingering is really easy, there are only so many combinations you can have with three valves. Arbans is a great book, just work on the first two pages of long notes do develop your lip. I find it strange that your bottom lip got sore, it is the top lip that vibrates and that is what usually gets tired when I play. Have fun with it and try not to let it interfere too much with the clarinet but I don't think there is any reason you can't do both. I love my tenor horn and I wouldn't part with it now for anything.
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Author: mandy
Date: 1999-06-19 04:05
I'm a music ed/performance major. i've been playing the clarinet for 10 yrs, and the summer going into my senior yr. of HS, i took summer lessons for trumpet. i have problems going from trumpet to clarinet, but if there is time in between playing them, i don't have a problem. i don't think it does any damage, i honestly don't know if it does. but i think it taught some more about breath control. also, the one thing i found was i couldn't play very long. there was a physical time limit on playing trumpet, and i didn't remember that when i was learning clarinet. good luck!
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Author: William Fuller
Date: 1999-06-19 23:58
I do!!!!
While taking lessons on the Clarinet in high school, I was asked to join the local drum and bugle corps. After a couple of years, I advanced to solo sop. bugle (range up to high G--screamin) and principal clarinet in our school distric's all-star band. I went on to college and became the principal clarinet in the band and orchestra (unnamed Big-Ten Univ.) After graduation, I have continued playing clarinet, sax and flute professionally while using my brass skills to teach my band classes (trumpet, mainly--don't have to mess with a dried out reed--just pick up to trpt. and blow). People have always complimented me on my great sound on clarinet and sax and now that I am retired, I continue to play in bands and orchestras all over town. And, I still have a trumpet range from low G to high E! After you gain the strength for trumpet, your "big lip" problem will disappear and the two embrouchrures will actually compliment each other. By the way, it is "natural" for a trumpet player to be able to play the flute. There are many similarities between the two embrouchures. Frankly, I wish now that I had concentrated on the trumpet more than the woodwinds--think of aoo those reed problems I could have avoided. Hope you read this.
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