 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Danielle
Date: 2001-11-07 19:56
Hey everyone,
I play in a jazz combo with three alto saxes, a trumpet, two drummers (who rotate on our drumset, so there's only one playing at a time), and a bassist. My question: I'm so tired of being overwhelmed by the other instruments, especially since i just am learning a new embouchure and switching to a higher strength of reeds (i just started with a new teacher), and I have to really concentrate on making a good (non-squeaky) sound before i make a loud one. I play on a B45, and was wondering if anyone could reccomend a good, bright, LOUD mouthpiece that isn't too expensive, and reletively easy to find.
Also-again, I'm starting with a new teacher, as this is my first year at the msm prep division. Quite frankly, I really, really, really, really don't like her. She doesn't play her clarinet at all, doesn't even have hers out during the lesson, and I have real trouble learning from her. I'm a very auditory learner, and it really helps me to hear the music played (on the clarinet) so I can learn rhythm, etc, and I've always learned some of of my NYSSMA, auditions, and sometimes even ensamble music (especially pit orchestras) by listening to it-that's how I teach myself jazz solos, too, by transcribing them. Obviously, she never plays my music so I can see how it's done. Also, I am just adjusting to a new embouchure/tounging method, and although I know it's right, I have trouble during my lesson learning it, because I never see her doing it on a mouthpiece. She just doesn't understand that there are some things that I don't need to do-tapping AND counting in my head just doesn't help me. During my lessons, I get really nervous, and I mess up because I get really distracted. I don't feel comfortable with her. Should I try and tough the rest of the year out with her, or should I try and switch at the end of the semester? I know that I probably could switch at the end of the fall semester, if my mom talked to the director at msm, but I've never had this problem before, and I'd feel really bad telling my teacher that I wanted to switch...Anyone have any suggestions?
Danielle
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bill
Date: 2001-11-07 20:05
I have an old Claude Lakey that kicks. They have that reputation. Don't know if they are still being manufactured.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ron b
Date: 2001-11-07 21:35
You need to address more than mouthpieces, Danielle -
Your setup is okay. There are far bigger issues to be dealt with. Soon.
If I were in a situation like yours, I'd most likely be asking myself some Serious Questions. Like, "Self, what in the world am I Doing here"? ....
If I still had a smattering of sense and my hearing was still somewhat intact, I might hear a quiet voice saying to me, and hopefully before my attitude turns too sour to listen, something like what you wrote above...
" Here I am. I'm being drowned out by three saxes, a trumpet, a bassist(amplified?) and Two(!) Alternate Drummers. Beside all that, I'm getting nowhere with my music. Why? "
-- by the way what's with this drummer thing, Danielle? -- one gets tired beating the set to death and the other one takes over bashing 'em to bits?
Oh, ~~~:|spare me|
No wonder young folks become discouraged. In your circumstance I'd feel like throwing in the towel. You can't develop your playing skills, fighting it that way. If you can gracefully get out of it, by all means do so. I mean your boiler factory situation, not music... before it's too late.
If you can find a way to be part of a pit orchestra with a sensible director go there. Don't walk -- run! That seems, from what you write, to be what interests you most, at this time anyway. Do what you can to develop it. First of all, you need to get with a group who understand the difference between making music and making a racket. Otherwise you'll lose your incentive and become more discouraged than you already are. You're at risk of becoming bitter over this.
Before your Mom talks to anyone, you two need to get together for a real heart to heart discussion of your dilemma. You might consider leveling with your teacher too. Give her a chance. Maybe she just doesn't know where you're coming from.
Take heart, Danielle. When you are straighforward with people, they're much more likely to respect your wishes and help you get to where you'd like to go.
--- (two cents worth of - ron b - 
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mike B.
Date: 2001-11-07 22:00
Take a tip from guitarists: AMPLIFICATION!
Regards.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: dan powell
Date: 2001-11-07 23:14
switch to soprano sax for the combo. i also recomend the vandoreen 5jb but dont think its enough for that combo. lakeys are still made but i have never played one. i use the rico royal metalite clarinet mpc in situations like yours. this is considered blasphemous but beleive me it works! not easy to find however.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ron b
Date: 2001-11-08 01:21
Do you have a good set of form fitted earplugs?
:)
- ron b -
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Miles
Date: 2001-11-08 02:03
Hello Danielle,
A great mpc that works really great for jazz is a Morgan J7 or a Mike Lomax mpc. (Andrew Firth verson). The Lomax plays alot better in tune and has a great projection without a mike. Have fun!!
Miles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: allencole
Date: 2001-11-08 05:55
It's going to be very difficult to compete in terms of volume with other instruments. Even saxophones can be overwhelmed by brass and all wind instruments are overwhelmed by drums and amplified rhythm instruments. Don't sacrifice your sound quality and don't blow your brains out.
On your teacher: I am a strong believer in having my horn at all lessons, but most of my own teachers were not and I didn't really suffer. I wonder if your teacher is trying to avoid having you depend on her for all your rhythms?
You state in no uncertain terms that you wish to learn your rhythms by rote, having them demonstrated by someone else. A good teacher teaches you to think for yourself, and anyone who swallows your 'auditory learner' argument is just taking your money.
You don't like learning rhythm, but you do need it. You are highly unlikely to find yourself in any collegiate or adult jazz bands or pit orchestras if you don't read it well at sight.
If current teaching methods aren't working (are you really giving them a chance?) then try other avenues. It sounds to me like you need to study rhythm in a workbook, computer program, or some other circumstance in which you aren't distracted by the operation of your instrument.
I recommend the Master Theory Workbook (widely available) and a cheap notation program called Noteworthy Composer. You can get it as shareware and use it to test any rhythms you want. http://www.noteworthycomposer.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: graham
Date: 2001-11-08 15:17
Re the teacher, is one of your (unstated) objections that you have doubts she can play well, or in a style you would aspire to? I certainly would have that suspicion with a teacher who did not play in lessons, ever.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ed
Date: 2001-11-08 16:46
I also would like to add (as others have indicated) that a clarinet cannot play as loud as a saxophone or the other instruments. Do not go to an extreme set up or distort your playing to compete. Mic it! i have heard many younger players sound grotesque because they are trying too hard to compete for example, with the brass in a marching band. It will hurt your playing in the long run.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: John Kelly - Australia
Date: 2001-11-09 05:35
I use a Vandoren 5JB - they make it for jazz players hence the "JB" designation + a #4 Rico reed. I can make myself heard in a 12 piece brass band [New Orleans marching style band ]. I recently played in one such outfit with 3 drummers!
It won't do your chops any harm at all - and will build up muscle strength and a broad tone - some may consider this a drastic set-up - but it works. I can play a 3 hour gig and still "flap my gums at the end of it all".
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Fred
Date: 2001-11-09 15:34
To John Kelly -
You must have SOME CHOPS to play #4 Reeds on a 5JB . . .
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: donald nicholls
Date: 2001-11-10 10:48
re "loud enough"- basically, you're going to be able to play as loud on a B45 as you will be able to on any of the other mouthpieces suggested. But whose smart idea (NOT) was it to pit you against (or at least, in the middle of...) THREE alto saxophones?
re "i am an auditory learner" (or something like that).... sure a teacher needs to be flexible re the students induvidual learning style etc... but a teacher also needs to understand what it is you need to learn, and has the responsibility to teach you that- regardless of your own opinion. Maybe this teacher (who probably knows you better than we do) thinks you need to improve some of the aspects of musicality that you personally find less easy? (ie wants to exercise the more intellectual processes in your music making rather than the "natural", which won't disapear)
i personally make a point of playing a lot to my students, especially the younger ones (who really learn by mimicry to a huge extent).... but i am also glad that my former teachers (Peter Scholes, David Adlam, Dave Etheridge and Ron deKant) made me do things that i found difficult instead of trying to apease MY headstrong personality. (of course, as i've never met you i don't mean to suggest that YOU are headstrong).
donald
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: allencole
Date: 2001-11-11 10:31
Additional on volume: I went out to see a young friend play a clarinet solo with her--yes I know how crazy this sounds--marching band. Actually, it was a four-horn dixieland segment with trumpet, clarinet, trombone and tuba. She is quite a loud and open player, but still was almost entirely drowned out by the others. I could barely make out her highest notes. I can't think of any mouthpiece or reed setup that could've overcome those conditions, and I'm not sure that I would've done better myself against three blasting brass. Sometimes there's just nothing you can do.
One more thought on the teacher: Donald makes some valid points and I see this all the time. Necessity is the mother of invention, and I often find that students progress better on a given issue when I create a necessity for them to cope with. If I find that a student depends too much on specific examples to mimic, one logical element of their instruction is to deprive them of these examples so that they will learn to cope with the written music.
If I allowed any of them to remain 'auditory learners' how could they ever cope with adult community bands that rehearse only once a week, or professional opportunities that might allow for little or no rehearsal at all?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: John Kelly - Australia
Date: 2001-11-12 03:58
Like I say: "Author: John Kelly - Australia (---.tmns.net.au)
Date: 11-09-01 01:35
I use a Vandoren 5JB - they make it for jazz players hence the "JB" designation + a #4 Rico reed. I can make myself heard in a
12 piece brass band [New Orleans marching style band ]. I recently played in one such outfit with 3 drummers!
It won't do your chops any harm at all - and will build up muscle strength and a broad tone - some may consider this a drastic
set-up - but it works. I can play a 3 hour gig and still "flap my gums at the end of it all".""
Worth a try for anyone playing dixie/new orleans jazz - works for me!
JK
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
