 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Filipe T.
Date: 2001-11-06 21:34
Why are the V12s so "playable"? I'm saying this because when I played with my regular vandorens, I had a really hard time with them. They(in my opinion) were very picky. But my V12's are all "perfect". It's like they're made especially for me. Why are the v12s so good?????
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Author: Laur
Date: 2001-11-06 22:42
Mabye just you got a "lucky" box. I've been having a lot of trouble with my V12's lately... Supposvly the V12's are handpicked or use better reed cane, i'm not sure though.
Laurie
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Author: Emms
Date: 2001-11-06 22:47
I think you're just lucky, or maybe they're just slightly softer than you're used to.
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Author: Sandra Franklin Habekost
Date: 2001-11-06 23:36
I never liked V-12's. My experience was that I came to dislike the thick heel, and the tip seemed too thin in relation to it. As for calling them "Morre cut"--LOL! I use Morre reeds, and V-12's don't come close to the quality. I'd opt for Vandoren blackmasters, although some of my peers really like the V-12's...
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-11-07 01:20
They simply happen to suit you. I tried V12s and did not like them. That doesn't mean that the reeds are bad just that they didn't suit me. I could play on them but for me they did not respond well.
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Author: Carmen Izzo
Date: 2001-11-07 02:11
WOW! All your reeds perfect? You must be lving the sweet clarinet life. Ah, how it must be without the frustration of wasting one box to find only one good reed, and the troubles of buying three boxes at a time so i can have bigger rotation of reeds with less frustration and time wasted adjusting reeds. . . .
~Carmen
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Author: Ken
Date: 2001-11-07 02:19
Maybe the dude or dudette that sticks the "two good ones" in the box was feeling extra charitable one day and you DID get lucky, time and more money will tell.
The tall tale handed down to me about Morre reeds was when old man Morre went out of business circa 1975-7 (or died) his widow "after a time" sold the machines and patents to Vandoren...hence the birth of the Morre-cut V-12. I believe I remember Vandoren even claiming they were using Morres' equipment at first. I've still got some old Morres for keep sake and comparing them side to side the vamps don't match, the rails on the Morres are thinner the V-12 heels are thicker and the V-12 is taller and a bit more fanned at the tip.
Brands of reeds are in the eye of the beholder. In my book, there was a time V-12s were premium-quality cane and I played on them exclusively, but like many mass-produced reeds prices inched up until one day I got "box shock" at the counter and consistency diminished (for me). Some people of course, remain loyalists and love them...bon appetite! And some reeds just seem to work better on different set-ups regardless of how crummy they are.
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Author: Benny
Date: 2001-11-07 02:49
Believe it or not, you actually can buy blue box Vandoren hand-selected reeds! What's the catch, you ask? They cost about twice as much as regular blue box and there's not a whole lot of difference in the quality. Some, but not much...
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2001-11-07 04:07
The story I've heard from several different sources is that Morre destroyed the machines and refused to disclose the source of his cane. This is the first time I've ever heard anyone say that Vandoren had purchased them. I don't believe that's true.
Filipe, I have another theory for why you may prefer V12's and it derives from the above post that notes that V12's are softer reeds than Vandoren "regulars" (about 1/2 "strength" softer according to Vandoren and some players, about 1/4 strength according to others). In the U.S. at least (and perhaps elsewhere), there seems to be a widely-held notion that higher strength reeds are a sign of more advanced players. This may come from the fact that beginners usually start on very soft reeds then, as their embouchure develops, graduate to higher strengths. IMO, many clarinetists fail to recognize that there is a limit to this progression, and the limit may be reached at a fairly low strength number (3 or 3.5) if one is using a moderately open mouthpiece. (I was certainly in this category for a long time.) While there are certainly exceptions, particularly among truly advanced players, most of the time I have heard someone complain that a reed was unplayable, the reason was that it was too hard, rather than too soft (reeds that are too soft tend to be judged as "playable right out of the box but short-lived" in my experience). In at least some cases then, I suspect that the problem is not with the quality of the reeds but rather with the strength being purchased. Vandoren's published practice of putting a range of strengths in each box can contribute to the confusion because, e.g., in a box of #4's, there will usually be a few reeds that are close to 3.5's. For someone who should actually be using 3.5's, those few good "4's" mask the fact that a 3.5 is what they should be buying. For someone in this situation who is not aware that a #4 V12 is fairly close on average to a #3.5 regular, the resulting switch to the somewhat softer V12 may cause them to find a much higher percentage of useable reeds simply because they are finding a higher percentage of softer reeds. Certainly, I think, if one is finding a high percentage of reeds that feel too stiff, one should try dropping back a half strength.
Filipe, I don't know you well enough to know whether this explanation is relevant to your situation or not but I really think it's something worth thinking about for many individuals. It certainly worked for me. Just my $.02.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: Sneakers
Date: 2001-11-07 04:44
I agree with Benny. I bought a box of Vandoren hand-select reeds and I think they must have been selected for their poor quality. Not one of them played well! By the way, what do LOL and IMO mean????
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Author: lala
Date: 2001-11-07 06:14
I like V12. I used to play on standard Vandoren 2.5 and 3, but the quality is not consistent. Often there is only one playable directly out of box. I could save 2 or 3 more by adjusting, that's all. The V12, on the other hand, has more playable reeds out of the box and after adjustment almost each and every one can work somehow.
If I remember rightly, V12 are made out of cane with thicker diameter. Compare the "standard" with V12, the immediate difference is that the former has a rounded V near the bark while V12's is a squared U. Perhaps the longer length also enhance the responsiveness of the reed.
I can't imagine playing on a 4 or 5. To me it would be far too hard and I would use too much strength to push the reed while I should be making music. My teacher also play on 2.5 and 3 V12 and makes beautiful, sweet and full sound, so the high strength = advanced doesn't apply to everyone - even the pro - at all.
Good playing!
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Author: Wes
Date: 2001-11-07 06:45
V 12's are great but so are many other reeds. One cannot expect to play new reeds without doing some adjustment work on most of them. There are no free lunches. When one works on the new V12's a little, just about all can be playable, I believe.
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Author: graham
Date: 2001-11-07 07:31
Also depends on the lay of the mouthpiece. A longer lay could suit the V12 reeds better (shorter lay for standard). Reeds that sound consistently good may not deliver as many very good examples per box. Some people I know stick with standard Vandoren even though they get one good reed per box, because they think that one good reed is great. Personally, I think that leads to reed hangups, but each person has a different approach.
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Author: Jon Usher
Date: 2001-11-07 15:33
Nice to see someone who has mentioned this. In my experience, the mouthpiece lay and tip opening make a big difference in whether V12's or Standards work. With my Kanter mouthpiece I cannot for the life of me get V12's to respond correctly. However the standards (once balanced) seem to work best. The Black Masters work better than the V12's (and fewer of them need to be balanced). However the tips on the Black Masters soon prove to be too thin for me at the second or third playing.
In my experience playing and teaching, I find that the style of the cut of the reed HAS to match the mouthpiece for the player as a starting point - rendering the V12's vs. Standards comparison very mouthpiece specific.
-Jon
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Author: graham
Date: 2001-11-08 15:19
I used to think it was Lord, oh Lord!
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Author: Bill
Date: 2001-11-09 18:53
I thought O. Lee Gibson talked Vandoren into producing a thicker-cut redd. Check out "Clarinet Acoustics." Get the feeling in that book he's taking credit for the thicker blank.
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