 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Andy
Date: 2001-11-05 08:50
Hi all, I'm presently thinking of purchasing a professional clarinet. I have a few questions to ask about the Buffet clarinets.
1)What's the difference of the RC and the RC prestige? Is there any significant difference between them? Which one should I choose?
2)I'm interested in the Festival too.Looking at the catalogue, I think that the RC Prestige and the Festival are almost the same in terms of technical specifications.
Do they differ alot in sound?
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Author: Daniel Bouwmeester
Date: 2001-11-05 09:45
the difference lies in the quality of the wood, and the lower joint and bell have a different shape.
The acoustic difference between the two is mainly that the prestige has generally a better response and that it's less free in higher notes (will not scream).
Make sure you select carefully your instrument. There are very big difference between instruments of one model. Especially the RC which is made of a less good selected wood. That means you can find an RC which is better than some Prestige. There is no instrument which is better than the other.
Regards
DAniel
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Author: C@p
Date: 2001-11-05 13:05
Dan
Can you elaborate on what you mean by "that it's less free in higher notes (will not scream)?"
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-11-05 13:31
I've never owned an RC, but have owned both Prestige and Festival Buffets and much prefer the Festival over the Prestige. I found the tone "thin" in the altisimo (thus Daniel's "will not scream" comment) and eventually sold the instrument. It was much more resistant than the Festival. The Festival is just a delightful instrument in every way. It's very responsive and has a wonderful tone.
But, as mentioned by others, each individual instrument has its own characteristics. If you get a good one you'll really have a great instrument for a lifetime with either of the three: Festival, Prestige or RC.
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Author: Richard Fong
Date: 2001-11-05 15:56
I have Festival Bb(1991) and RC Prestige(A,1999), I played the festival for 8 years, she give me a very very sweet tone, I love it. Just one thing I need to concider, is the respone, I need to make friend to each note, I need to know how they sing.
For the RC Rrestige(A), firstly, key, pad, hole, terrible!! Yeap! Key are too hight, hole need undercut, pad are too tick.. I still pay for it, why? I found a very nice dark sound clarinet, and the sound still can develop! I think, buy a Prestige A will better than both Festival.
Arr. one more thing, I found that, Festival hight note are sound "thin" than Prestige.
What do you think?
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Author: James
Date: 2001-11-05 17:25
I think one thing you all might not be considering is the cost of each of these instuments. Prestige models are generally one thousand dollars more than their core instrument, Reg R13 and RC. Personally I have found RC clarinet's are of a more covered tone, i feel it lacks the bright overtones which gives the clarinet such brilliance when in the orchestral setting. Also the Festival's are great clarinets, they have a sweet sound but they incapable of projecting and getting though an orchestra. So to be perfectly honest, I would have to say that the Buffet R13 (with silver keys) is probably the best clarinet to go for its price range and quality, there isn't any question at looking at how popular the clarinet is over any of the other models. I know famous professionals in the industry who have switched back to the New R13's from their prestige and festival models because Buffet have made adjustments that just make these clarinets awesome and better in tune.
But to be perfectly honest, I feel that you should try the Leblanc concertos as well, they have an amazing tone, and feeling to them. And you have the ability to project quite well and easily stay in tune with out having to adjust all the time. As the quote says, you owe it to your self to atleast try a leblanc.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2001-11-05 17:55
I think this whole "play this because it sounds like that" is a big joke! There are so many counter-examples to each person's opinion as to render most of the discussion moot. There are good clarinets in all the manufacturer's "pro" level clarinet lines. To say that "A" doesn't project in some setting is always contered by "but X plays (played) an A in W orchestra and sounded great! Really cut through!". Or we have "Y plays (played) a B in a jazz setting and sounded really lively and bright, but the same clarinet sounded so dark and covered when Y played it with the V orchestra and used the same setup!" when someone says "Clarinet B isn't suited for jazz because it's too dark".
Get off the equipment crutch - buy good instruments, practice every day, and play the h**l out of your music!
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2001-11-05 20:00
I 1/2 agree with Mark.
Yes, clarinetists shouls spend less time worrying about their equipment, and spend more playing music.
However, different models of clarinet have different characteristics, and having people giving their opinion on them might be useful.
I find most people choose their clarinet because of cultural reasons, i.e. what does your teacher or idol play, not acoustic ones.
My advice is to try to do some blind tests with different horns and pick the one you prefer regardless of what it says on the horn.
As far as the buffet line goes RC, RC Prestige, R13, R13 Prestige, Vintage and Festival are all pro level instrument which can all be played in both small and large ensemble settings.
The first thing to check is the intonation of the horn. If it is bad don't even consider buying it. Once you have a selection of well in tune instruments, go for your personal preference, key placement, response, overall sound, and of course what your teacher is playing ;->
Good luck,
-S
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Author: GBK
Date: 2001-11-05 21:02
Sorry folks to disagree with all of you (except for Mark)...but most of us will still sound like "us" on most any pro level horn after given a brief period of time.
Your basic sound is largely a matter of embouchure, throat opening, air speed, etc...The horn is not the major factor...I have attended countless master classes and witnessed the instructor (a major clarinet soloist) pick up a student's horn, play it, and still sound like he/she usually does...GBK
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Author: Bob
Date: 2001-11-05 22:21
Mark, maybe you should take your own advice because you don't sound all to famous to me to give such godly advice, take your own and you should develope your own playing ability, not just comment of some chat board. Any why hasn't anyone mentioned the selmer signature clarinets?
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2001-11-06 02:31
Bob wrote:
>
> Mark, maybe you should take your own advice because you
> don't sound all to famous to me to give such godly advice, take
> your own and you should develope your own playing ability, not
> just comment of some chat board.
Well, Bob, except for this here site, and having lots of "famous" friends to give me advice and help me out - I'm a nobody. Just like you.
Except I have a last name and email address and I'm not afraid to post them, and I ask those famous friends (who play in world-class orchestras and opera houses around the world and make a living playing their instrument) what their opinion is. And of course, I weight their opinion a h**l of a lot more than your faceless and nameless one. And to a person they tell me it's practice that makes the difference, not the kind of equipment you're playing (assuming that you've decent equipment to start). Those that can benefit from the minor changes in equipment the most tend not to be asking about it here.
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Author: graham
Date: 2001-11-06 08:37
This conversation is beginning to sound rather bitchy.
If there is no point discussing equipment, then many of the posts on this board are apparently pointless. It seems to me that some people feel it makes a big difference. It is not helpful to say that that must mean they are inadequate or not a great player. It is right to say that the top players do not post on this board. The board is for people who are not the top players, and who find the debates they read either useful, interesting, or fun.
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Author: Jim Lee
Date: 2001-11-06 14:03
Excuse me, what happened to free exchange of ideas. I found the ideas on this board useful when I recently purchased a new Festival clarinet. But I tried Leblance, Yamaha, Selmer and Buffet before making a decision. I tried at least ten Festivals before deciding on a purchase. I found some of the info here to be in support of a product of someones choice. We do tend to make our choices the best even when they are not. Witness cars where some swear X brand is wonderful and others swear at X brand. So, please give opinions in honesty and remember that someone just might believe what you say.
Jim
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2001-11-06 14:29
This <b>is</b> the free exchange of ideas! My saying (in essence) that the choice of equipment isn't going to get anyone a job is an idea, and you don't have to listen to it. I find that the amount of effort going into picking the "right" set of equipment is most probably better spent elsewhere. There are some that get caught up in the search for the holy grail ...
There's historical reasons for looking at the manufacturer of clarinets, and there's the curiosity factor, and there's the technical "wanting to know" part of it. But when you get right down to it - if you hear someone playing, you'll know <b>who</b> it is, not what equipment they've got in their hands. You'll probably never know if that was a difficult reed to play on, or whether they had tape in the toneholes.
To me the more interesting posts on the BBoard are <b>how</b> to manage a difficult reed, or where and why to put the tape in the toneholes, or perhaps how this phrase or that one should be interpreted.
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Author: Jim Lee
Date: 2001-11-06 15:03
Mark,
My comment was not meant to disagree with the previous statements on this tread. I just wanted to stress that the info recieved here was helpful and the final decision must be made by the individual that will play the instrument. I would rather hear Greg Smith play my old Selmer signet thanhear my self play my new Festival.
Jim
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Author: Richard Fong
Date: 2001-11-06 16:26
Mark,
If my posted really stupid, I would like to say sorry to you.
I love this board, I would like to say thank you to you again, this place let me(many people) re-pick up the clarinet again.
Free discussion area, too much information, stupid answer(just like mine)... Come on, just a little space for us for discussing 2 top model. I still remember when I get the lovely clarinets, I said, "That's the best clarinet sound..." really happy (for me)..
Yeap, you give us a punch, (thanks * 3) .... really good punch!!
"you'll know who it is, not what equipment they've got in their hands"
Very good point!
"manage a difficult reed, or where and why to put the tape in the toneholes, or perhaps how this phrase or that one should be interpreted"
Interesting!! You light up me, I will start rearch on this kind question... like search, try, play, read, share.
May be, good punch always start form a stupid answer (I mean my post).
Thanks again , Mark!! (^_^)
Cheers.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2001-11-06 17:34
No, Richard, you didn't add anything "stupid"; neither did you make any "stupid" remarks.
Rather, in my quest for knowledge I have asked many professionals (people making money playing) what the importance of the equipment and setup really is. Their answers are, to a person (paraphrased) "not much" - assuming the equipment is good to begin with.
This is not to say there aren't differences in the equipment, but if it doesn't matter all that much at <b>their</b> level of playing, why should it matter more at <b>our</b> level of playing?
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Author: Mario
Date: 2001-11-06 17:36
If one goes to ClarinetFest, there is a big tradeshow with all kinds of after-market equipment vendors promoting their wares.
A couple of years back, I went to the International Saxophone Conference in Montreal. A few great concerts, some interest talks. But a very small tradeshow floor (considering that there are many more sax players out there than clarinet players, the show floor was punny in comparison to ClarinetFest with Selmer talking most of the space anyway).
I ran into a couple of old acquaintances (i.e.: sales people I saw at ClarinetFest tradeshows ) and asked them why there was more stuff at ClarinetFest than at SaxophoneFest. Their answer was the same:
We clarinetists are equipment-obsessed and like to fiddle a lot with our set-up. Amongst winds, we stand out in the crowd. Most other wind players select a good set-up and then settle down to practicing and developping. An exception must be made for oboe players, who are constantly obsessed with reeds (but nothing else though).
We clarinetists are also ** cheap **, worrying constantly on how much things costs, and sometimes selecting a lesser set-up to save a few dollars. Hence a whole cottage industry of equipment vendors that try to compete on price (my mouthpiece sells only for 50.00, my ligature for 10.00, etc.).
As a collectivity, this is what we project to tradeshow staff: an extremely price-sensitive group of people always looking for this extra little-edge in novelty equipment.
Yet, our choice of core horn is hyper-conservative. It is essentially Buffet, with all others sharing a small piece of the pie. We will buy dozens of mouthpieces over the year, but insist that it must work on a Buffet. There are quite a few posts on this way back. It is an example of a manufacturer succeeding to impove itself as de facto standard in the Industry.
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Author: James
Date: 2001-11-06 17:39
To everyone this concerns:
I would like to say what i wrote wasn't stupid and i don't regret writing it because I WORK on my playing and i know your basic sound is your sound and it is a matter of comfort. The Comfort of getting a good tone, the confort of better intonation (If you aren't playing right then no horn, no matter how well made will play in tune), But hey im just a high school student trying to make it as a professional player but my opinion really is just a copy of what my teachers have told me. To be perfectly honest with you all, i would feel just as comfortable going in to my future eastman college audition on a set of buffet E11's as i would on a set of Leblanc concertos because I know that who ever listens to me play will see or not see what i have either way.
I admit i do have fun talking about all these options we have now that forsay people of the last two generations had. I like the fact that we have a billion different well made clarients to pick ect. But like i said thats fun. And im sorry if i gave the impression if i did (to you mark) that all i care about is my equiptment becuase above all of it, its not my clarinet, its not that im a clarinetists, its that im a musician. Something that isn't a hobby, isn't just a job, or something you do everyday. It's a way of life.
Once again thanks,
James
PS. Bob you don't even deserve a response from me in my book, go harrass another chat leave this one alone.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2001-11-06 17:43
James, my post wasn't directed specifically to you (though it looks that way from the thread attachment - my apologies). It's this whole equipment thing ... people getting so wound up in it! We need to keep tools in perspective! Sharp chisels are not the only requirement to be a wood carver ...
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2001-11-06 18:12
This thread is definitely a fun one.
Clarinet players should be proud to be so picky and cheap. You can know get a pro grade setup for just about $2000. I don't know many other instrumentalist who can claim the same.
I think that we all agree that having a better instrument will not make you a better musician. Only practice, study of the repertoire and interaction with others will.
In the end, when your recital/concert/show comes, nobody cares if you have a bad reed, or if your instrument is a Buffet, YOU have to perform well no matter what.
However, being interested in, not obsessed by, equipment is IMHO a positive thing. It pushes manufacturers to improve, or at least make us believe they improve, the instruments, mpcs, reeds, even cork grease!
It also provides for endless discussions on this BB which overall is an amazing experience!!
Now as I was saying earlier, if you need to buy a horn check for intonation first then go with what you feel most comfortable with.
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Author: Mike B.
Date: 2001-11-06 23:19
As a doubling sax / clarinet player, I can say with complete confidence that sax players can be every bit as equipment-obsessive as clarinet players, probably even more so. If you don't believe me, see http://boards.eesite.com/board.cgi?boardset=saxweb. Regards.
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Author: sarah
Date: 2001-11-07 00:24
I think this is the same bob that left a message on my post about buying a Bb and an A clarinet.
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