 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: C@p
Date: 2001-11-01 13:38
I happened to be browsing this site's sponsoring sites and came across some music museums. It started me to wonder what happens to instruments of notable deceased musicians and particularly what might have become of Benny Goodman's clarinets.
Would any one have any input?
C@p
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Author: Bill
Date: 2001-11-01 15:00
Benny wondered the same thing when he ran an advertisement in a clarinet magazine in the 1950s asking for anyone who knew the whereabouts of his L series Balanced Tone to please drop him a line.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-11-01 15:33
I presume from the L, B T that it was a Selmer-Paris? Will look in my B G book, unless someone finds it shortly. Don
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Author: Fred
Date: 2001-11-01 16:24
Check ebay . . . they turn up all the time . . . (lol)
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Author: GBK
Date: 2001-11-01 16:33
Benny Goodman used at least four different clarinets at various stages of his career. He used a Selmer Balanced Tone, a Selmer Centered Tone, a Boosey and Hawkes 1010, and even (briefly) a Buffet.The Buffet is on display in the Metropolitan Museum of Art in the musical instrument collection...GBK
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Author: larry
Date: 2001-11-01 19:14
Another notable musician's instrument was recently sold at auction by Sotheby's:
Louis Armstrong's first cornet from his days at the Colored Waif's Home in New Orleans was bought by somebody for $115,000.
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Author: Ken
Date: 2001-11-01 22:21
Why do I get the sinking feeling that cornet will eventually turn up as a wall hanging at a Hard Rock Cafe or T.G.I.F.?
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Author: jim lande
Date: 2001-11-01 23:09
Someone apprenticed with Hans Moennig reported that Mr. Moennig was very
upset with Mr. Goodman. Moennig set up a Buffet for Goodman.
Goodman apparently used the clarinet but didn't publicize that fact since he was
under contract to Selmer. However, in one of the publicity stills for Selmer,
Goodman was holding the Moennig Buffet, not a Selmer.
Someone else on this list suggested that Goodman's first clarinet (or at least one of
his early ones) was a Penzel Muller.
My memory is poor. So, maybe search the archives.
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Author: Joseph O'Kelly
Date: 2001-11-02 00:20
I remember reading in a BG biography that it was a Penzel Muller
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Author: Rob
Date: 2001-11-02 04:24
I recall seeing Benny Goodman's Leblanc clarinet in a case at Carnegie Hall.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-11-02 17:00
One of the photographs in the biography Swing, Swing, Swing shows a Selmer Centered Tone clarinet among Goodman's gear. I'd heard about the Buffet clarinet he used briefly.
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Author: Bill
Date: 2001-11-02 18:10
I remember well the huge debate that broke out on "Klarinet" about 5 (?) years ago on the subject of Benny posing for a Selmer ad with a Buffet clarinet. God, it was like a war. Got the creeps just reading that (again) here. Bad flashback!!!!! --Bill.
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Author: William
Date: 2001-11-02 21:20
Just proves that the great ones sound good no matter what they use. It should be a lesson to all of us wa-na-be copycats who have to run out and buy the latest mpc, lig or clarinet just because somebody good is playing on one. Somebody once said you should spend more time practicing than wishing.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2001-11-02 22:30
I read somewhere that the order of importance is something, more or less, like - player, mouthpiece, reed, instrument, teacher...
Benny woulda sounded good whistling up a stovepipe :]
- ron b -
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-11-03 03:26
Right you are, Ron!! I went thru my B G book, "Benny, King of Swing", [publ. Morrow] , 60 pgs of "intro" by Stanley Baron, 80 pgs of pics, many with cl's, with fingers on the rings, but all appearing to be 17/6 s. Only one tho clearly shows the Selmer-Paris logos, BUT with a very distinctive, intertwined X and I [??] below the bell's logo, dated prob. some 1928-30, Pollock Band NY era, possibly his first super-pro horn?? Maybe others more able to distinguish Selmers vs Buffets of the 30's-50's era, and LeBlancs later, can add to my interpretation, this book should be a library jewel. Luck, Don
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Author: Bob Smith
Date: 2001-11-03 13:50
When I was a college sax student I had the pleasure of backing Vincent ("Jimmy") Abato. I was impressed to tears by his sound & style on alto. I'll never forget my eager and immature question of him at a break. "Mr. Abato, what mouthpiece and reed setup do you use???" He gave me a look like I had just vomited a gerbil. "I play the same with ANY mouthpiece and reed."
When I grew up I realized he was right.
Bob
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-11-03 14:14
Yes, Bob, I agree. It's amazing how that works. There are "shades" of difference between mouthpieces and set-ups with great players, but they do seem to always sound the same on them all. My clarinet professor sounded like himself on everything he picked up, even some of the garbage set-ups students handed him to play. I was amazed. I could walk into the concert hall and hear a clarinet warming up and be able to tell you whether or not it was him. He played a Leblanc Opus for years and bought a new Buffet R-13 and sounded exactly the same. I'm sure it was the same for Benny Goodman. He always had that "Goodman" quality.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2001-11-03 15:45
from "The Clarinet" - vol 14 no 1 -Fall 1986 -Interview with Benny Goodman on July 28,1976 by Ralph Strouf:
Ralph: "Mr Goodman, what kind of mouthpiece do you play on?"
Benny: "Well, I think this says Hawthorne. I picked it up in England and its a fine mouthpiece. I have a better one at home someplace but I can't seem to find it."
Anyone ever heard of Hawthorne mouthpieces?
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-11-03 17:50
You have to remember, this is a guy who started playing while just a toddler on a poor quality clarinet. He probably would wonder what all the hoopla is about if he read some of our threads about mouthpieces--especially those where we're discussing paying $500.00 or so for a Kaspar.
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Author: Bob Smith
Date: 2001-11-03 18:43
Brenda,
YES! In fact, that posting above about the interview says it all. It's a perfect example of Goodman's dry humor and I can see him smiling and eyes twinkling as he says it. The meaning of what he ACTUALLY said is what we're talking about here. It might as well have been a Vito student line plastic mouthpiece. It wouldn't have mattered. He would have just placed a "shingle" under the ligature and played. He also was coyly avoiding an endorsement.
Young people (my former self included) certainly believe that there is "magic" in the instrument brand, mouthpiece make and facing, the reed and whether the performer modifies it or not. The belief is that if you can copy the magic you can at least get the sound. So, such questions can be tolerated from the young & innocent.
Always remember that Goodman himself made a big deal out of the fact (corraborated by family and others) that he practiced at least eight hours a day. If anyone is looking for "the magic" - there it partly is. The other part nobody can copy is an artist's experience and creativity. That lives, dies and is buried with the artist. One could practice eight hours a day copying every note and nuance of Goodman's works from recordings. The result would be two-dimensional and no more than a novelty. Artistry is not in the notes.
Bob
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2001-11-03 19:36
Read the article by Artie Shaw in the latest issue of Downbeat. Bennie was more hung up on people's equipment and playing than Artie ever was.
Or so says Artie ...
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Author: GBK
Date: 2001-11-03 20:24
Mark is correct...In the fine Artie Shaw article in "The Clarinet", vol 12 no 3, in Artie Shaw's words during a luncheon the 2 had together one afternoon:
"...Well, Benny went on asking me about this guy and that guy (different clarinet soloists) until I finally said, "Benny, you're too hung up on the clarinet." He said, "What are you talking about, that's what we play isn't it?" I said, "No, I've been trying to play music!" ..."I truly believe that's the first time he seriously ever had to consider the notion that the clarinet is a means, not an end..."
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Author: William
Date: 2001-11-04 16:57
Benny was "the clarinetist"--Artie was "the musician." Lots of professional composers and musicians marveled at Goodman's work ethic, work with minority muscians, clarinet technique and style, but disdained his basic musical prowness, and at least one--Alec Wilder--offered in an "unsent letter" to give Benny some "theory lessons" the next time he runs into a "harmonic crisis." Arties credentials for sound, phrasings and harmonic ideas speak volumes for themselves. I would, however, give anything to be able to play like either one and I admire them both for the contributions they made to the world of clarinetistry. Arties great recordings and Bennys major composer commitions (Copland, Nielson, etc) stand out in my mind. And both, like so many of todays "greats," relied less on "what" they were playing, but rather on "how." Good Clarineting.
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2001-11-04 20:35
A little off topic but I remeber a scene in the "Benny Goodman Story" where Benny (played by Steve Allen) is at a club and is invited to sit in with the band. So Benny opens his clarinet case, reaches in, and pulls out a fully assembled clarinet. I wish I could do that.
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Author: jim lande
Date: 2001-11-04 21:52
Robert
You can!. Just buy a metal clarinet. (OK, even the metal clarinet cases don't let you keep on the mouthpieces. Maybe you need a gig bag.
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Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2001-11-05 17:05
That is sort of like the time a bum walked up to Harpo Marx and asked for a dime for a cup of coffee. Harpo reaches into his coat and pulls out a steaming cup of coffee, complete with saucer. (Was this in "Horse Feathers"?)
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