 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Jack
Date: 2001-10-31 20:32
Can you discuss the pros and cons of nickel-plated keys vs. silver-plated? Thanks.
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Author: Helen
Date: 2001-10-31 20:54
Silver is shinier (whiter) and gives the impression of being more valuable
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Author: ron b
Date: 2001-10-31 21:53
In my opinion nickel is cold and smooth, silver is warm and soft.
- ron b -
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Author: Bill
Date: 2001-10-31 22:34
I found that on some same make and model horns the nickel was more slippery, i.e., too slippery, than silver. However, on the R-13 I find the nickel to have a nice feel and makes playing smoother (for me).
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Author: GBK
Date: 2001-10-31 22:45
Jack... Depending upon the acidity in your hands, the nickel plated keys may show much wear after a short period of time. This has been discussed many times on this board. It does seem especially prevalent in the newer R-13 clarinets.
The silver keys, with a brief wiping after each playing, should continue to look the same for many years to come.
Personally, I own 9 Buffet clarinets, all nickel plated, as I find the silver a bit too slippery. Fortunately, the acidity issue is not a problem for me, and even my older horns (96xxx, 120xxx, 162xxx) show just minor discoloration...GBK
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Author: sarah
Date: 2001-10-31 22:52
When I was trying out clarinets last spring I clearly noticed a difference. I thought that nickel was slippery, but still very playable. The one I ended up getting did have silver.
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Author: CURT
Date: 2001-10-31 23:06
I too have noticed that the nickle is more slick. The silver will tarnish however.
I know this is crazy but I think the silver looks better and (I'm sorry that I'm even saying this) if your instrument looks nice it seems to be easier to play. I know that is a mindset but I honestly feel more confident with nice silver plated keys.
Curt
www.MusicMedic.com
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Author: C@p
Date: 2001-11-01 02:16
Silver will tarnish over time and there are wiping cloths to deal with this to some extent. My R-13 Vintage has silver and I was told to keep the case open until it dried out and that would also help delay the formation of tarnish.
C@p
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2001-11-01 08:37
It is generally accepted that non-tarnished nickel is much more slippery than silver, especially with perspiring fingers. GBK is going against this tide of oipinion when he says "I find the silver a bit too slippery."
When nickel tarnishes (as can happen even from exposure to gasses given off by plastics - in the case? - and especially polyurethane fumes) the tarnish (sometimes off-white and rough) can be very difficult to remove.
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Author: Eoin
Date: 2001-11-01 09:14
GBK is not alone in finding silver more slippery. I had two clarinets, an old one with nickel keys which were dull grey in colour, and a new one with silver keys. I find the silver is more slippery, but this is a good thing, along me to slide my little finger quickly around the numerous keys it has to manage.
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Author: Luanne
Date: 2001-11-01 11:27
HI,
I also found the silver more slippery than nickel. My R-13 is nickel plated and I felt pretty secure about fingers staying put. When I bought the RC, I had to learn to adjust to the slickness of the silver keys but prefer it now especially when you need to slide.
Luanne :o)
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Author: beejay
Date: 2001-11-01 14:44
Some people are allergic to nickel. I do not think this is the case with silver.
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Author: Helen
Date: 2001-11-01 21:29
I turn silver keys black - too much sulphur in my skin. I also know someone who really pits nickel keys
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2001-11-02 05:02
Helen. Onions (+ garlic?) and eggs are high in sulphur. Perhaps it is diet related.
Woollen garments may also give off sulphur.
Jack: It would be a bit far fetched to imagine that the material of the keys affects sound. It is even argued whether the material of the body is relevant.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2001-11-02 05:06
Nichel versus silver for slipperiness....
Perhaps it depends on the nature of the skin on our fingers. That actually varies a lot.
One of my customers has finger skin like a baby's bottom, but mine is closer to rhinoseros hide, and air leaks along my finger prints on open hole flutes.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2001-11-02 05:53
Gordon...you may have a valid point on the nickel versus silver slipperiness as to skin texture. The second clarinetist in our orchestra finds that my nickel plated Buffets feel very different (and would take a liitle getting used to) than his silver ones. I, conversely, feel the same way about his. Different feel to the fingers? Perhaps...GBK
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Author: graham
Date: 2001-11-02 07:30
The best thing is when the plating (whichever it is) has worn off. The keys then acquire their own verdigris patina, and the feel under the fingers is very pleasant. When your hands sweat, the keys don't become as slippery. They just feel slightly damp and "mossy". Unfortunately, this takes several years of active playing to achieve.
Perhaps the technicians have something to say about replating keys. I have heard many stories of woodwind players having their keys re dipped only to find the stuff peeling off or bubbling a few months later. Is it advisable even to think about replating (as if anyone should want to)?
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Author: lordraptor1
Date: 2015-06-29 10:23
if teh nickel show much wear after a short period of time it is low quality plating, if silver is "to slippery" then the silver is either actually chrome, ir it the silver content is off. i have seen "silver" instruments that have as little as 25% silver in the plating and some as high as 75% silver content it seems like 50% silver content is a sweet spot.
fyi i have seen clarinets and flutes dated in the 1980's to 1992 where the plating looks like it is worn off of the keys, this issue does seem more prevalent with buffet clarinets and flutes though specifically the student line.
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2015-06-30 03:07
1) I understand that for keys, it seems silver is better than nickel.
2) I also totally buy that for clarinet bodies, hard rubber is better than wood. I understand that is a matter of some controversy, but I am not alone.
3) I read here that silver is incompatible with rubber. True? If so, what happens with rubber mouthpieces and barrels in the case with your silver plated keys? So it seems rubber clarinets get nickel keys.
4) Or rubber clarinets can get gold plated keys. I'm game, a gold plated Libertas might tempt me to upgrade from my Arioso (=Lyrique). Never mind what folks might CHARGE for gold keys, what's the actual material cost, over silver, to substitute a hardy gold job for an equally hardy silver job (probably not the same thickness- which requires thicker?)? $10? $100? $1000? If the facts are as I've stated them, why isn't gold kind of the standard? Many of you guys are willing to overpay (in my view) by $2000 or more for a pro clarinet- surely the cost of gold isn't that much. And we haven't even considered the bling value. Or is that actually a negative, too showy looking?
5) Other exotic metals? Platinum? Uranium? Unobtanium?
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2015-06-30 03:35
Just my comments:
1. solid virgin nickle keywork is much superior to either nickle plate or silver plate, the marketing people just don't like it.
2. you are right there would be many/most who disagree.
3. It is common fact that new rubber mouthpieces or barrels kept in close proximity to silver keywork causes tarnishing. Problem tends to lessen with time (less free sulphur?)
4. Gold is VASTLY more expensive than silver and in cases where it is used it is normally only a few microns thick overlaying a thicker silver plate.
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Author: lordraptor1
Date: 2015-06-30 04:32
quoted above poster:
1. solid virgin nickle keywork is much superior to either nickle plate or silver plate, the marketing people just don't like it.
2. you are right there would be many/most who disagree.
3. It is common fact that new rubber mouthpieces or barrels kept in close proximity to silver keywork causes tarnishing. Problem tends to lessen with time (less free sulphur?)
4. Gold is VASTLY more expensive than silver and in cases where it is used it is normally only a few microns thick overlaying a thicker silver plate.
1. dont know about nickel on keys or allergies but i dont know of a single guitar player with nickel plated bridge and tuners that has ever had an allergy problem
2. agree that people would argue this till the cows come home and what it boils down to IMHO is preference ( like my preference for ernie ball cobalt strings and someone else might think they are junk and like GHS Boomer strings
3. the tarnishing comes from a chemical reaction beterrn the rubber and the silver/nickel. this is not just limited to plating, in guitar and bass circles guitar stands have warnings because the foam padding on the stands may react to a nitro cellulos finish ( so if your clarinet has a nitro finish pay attention to using foam stands as the foam coulld react and "burn" the nitro finish.
4. gold plating is expensive and if it is anythign like the gold plating on guitar/bass it wears off fast.
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2015-06-30 06:41
I see 3 new Backun Alphas for sale right now with nickel, silver, and gold plated keys, priced at $913, $999, and $1075. So AT RETAIL, the difference silver to gold is only $76, so I'm guessing it actually costs Backun an extra $20. I rest my case.
Should I be tempted by this instrument? (2nd edit to add- apparently not. I glean from reviews that the Libertas is well above the Alpha, and the 576BC only slightly lower than the Libertas. And my Arioso was sold to me as acoustically equivalent to the 576BC. So the Alpha would appear to be a step down from my Arioso. But the Alpha is snazzy in gold. Ah- appearance isn't everything, maybe it isn't anything. If I aspire to an upgrade it should be a Libertas, in nickel or perhaps if ever available in gold if I can manage the extra $.)
1st edit to add- I note that these are some kind of composite body, but must not be rubber if they're available with silver plated keys, right? ...a "special synthetic material" ...kind of like "ground meat" that doesn't identify the species...
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
Post Edited (2015-07-01 18:45)
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