 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Mark
Date: 2001-10-30 15:37
I am thinking of buying a bass clarinet.
I see that there are two models, one going down to low e flat, the other to low c.
Which should I go for? Do I need the lower one for orchestral work?
Thanks for your comments in advance
Mark
Cambridge UK.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2001-10-30 15:47
A few years ago, when I was looking at basses, I wondered the same thing. I went with the low C since there are times when you will need these notes. If they are not there, you are out of luck.Some people choose to get an extension made, but I prefer to have the mechanism integrated. Have fun shopping! BTW- I went with the Selmer. A great horn although I have heard good things about the new Buffets as well.
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Author: Francesca
Date: 2001-10-30 16:36
Definitely go for the low C extension if you're doing orchestral work. It really comes in handy if you end up getting bassoon or cello parts. I have a Selmer too, and I adore it. Happy hunting!
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Author: Stephen Froehlich
Date: 2001-10-30 16:38
Most of the modern composers/arrangers are eager to use the lower notes on the low C Basses. You really won't run into anything you can't do with an Eb horn, though. I've seen players get too fascinated with the low range and transpose stuff that shouldn't be transposed. The Basses role is NOT to just double the Tubas.
The problem is essentially that there are no cheap Low C Basses - they're relatively new and all top-of-the line professional instruments. Therefore, you can't expect to find a good used one for less than $4000.
On the other hand, this has depressed the value of some of the best Low Eb horns, for example you can pick up a Selmer Model 33 in decent shape for ~$1500 off of eBay and elsewhere.
For anything less than a steady, professional gig, a good Eb Bass is definitely adequate. Honestly, I think it would be cheaper to get a good Eb horn, get in good shape and have an extension added.
Dave S: how do you like the extension you made for your Kohlert and how much do you think one should pay for one of these?
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Author: James
Date: 2001-10-30 17:38
Get the bass that goes down to low C becasue its actually in a good amount of music. And i have seen that people have mentioned the selmer bass clarinets but now we have better horns made by buffet. Get the buffet prestige bass clarinet
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2001-10-30 17:43
If you've got the bucks get a low C. The extension opens up alot of possibilities such as the Bach Cello Suites. Plus I actually find the low C more comfortable to play than the low Eb.
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2001-10-30 18:26
To quote myself (!) from a post of a few days ago: I've been playing b.c. for 25 years, and have rarely needed the low-C extension, a feature that adds expense, complexity, and weight. Nice on occasion and a necessity for playing "modern" classical music, but one can get by without it generally.
To respond to Steve F.'s question: I haven't built a complete low-C extension yet, although I now have all the parts I need to do so. What I have done (and have used on occasion) is a small low-D-only extension (removable), and it has come in handy because, at least in the band literature where I do most of my bass clarinet playing lately, 90% of the 'extended range' notes have been just that one half-step below the regular range --- I almost never need the low C# or C. So the little half-step extension (a prototype made out of PVC pipe and old saxophone key parts) gets the job done. As for selling them --- no way, it's extremely ugly, it was a lot of work to make, and I have no intention of making more -- it was actually intended to be just a prototype for the full extension, but I pressed it into service and have kept using it. If and when I get around to making a complete low-C extension, I'll be using a junk bass clarinet lower joint as the parts donor, so you can see that such a scheme doesn't lend itself to mass production!
The only aftermarket low-C extensions currently on the market that I'm aware of are Steve Fox's, which are reportedly beautifully made, and priced at something like $1200 Canadian as I recall.
But again, don't dismiss the 'short' low-Eb bass clarinets --- they are still plenty useful.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2001-10-30 19:06
According to James "And i have seen that people have mentioned the selmer bass clarinets but now we have better horns made by buffet." This is a matter of opinion. The Selmers are great horns. Some like one, some the other. Go with what you like.
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2001-10-30 20:16
Mark -
For tonal music, 99% of bass clarinet music goes only to low E. You need the Eb because Wagner wrote mostly for Bass in A, and Ravel, Stravinsky and others also call for it.
For contemporary music, you'll need the low C. Composers write for the low notes because they're there.
Professional bass players have more than one instrument. It's like owning an old Jaguar -- you need one to drive, one in the shop for repair and one for spare parts. Basses are notoriously quick to go out of adjustment, and if you're a pro, you have to be able to play at all times, with no excuses. For the same reason, professional players all have at least one bass that goes to low C
My experience has been that an instrument to Eb is easier to play and has a more lively tone than one to low C, though on the newer top of the line basses, the difference is less pronounced. If you go to concerts by major orchestras, you'll see most bass players using an instrument to Eb if they can.
One solution is to get a bass to Eb and have Steve Fox make a removable extension to low C. Steve's work is excellent, and if you have a good bass to begin with (i.e., a Buffet, a Selmer or perhaps a Yamaha), it's worth it (and less expensive) to have the extension made.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2001-10-30 23:03
I own a low C bass and a low Eb bass (both Selmers) and much prefer the low C. As I mentioned above you need the low C to play the Bach Cello Suites, a work that any serious bass cl. player should be heavily into. Even apart from classical and orchestral music the low C is desirable as it opens up many more possibilities for improvisation when playing jazz. As for the low Eb bass being more lively, there is very little difference in this area in my basses. My low C bass actually plays better than my low Eb (though my low Eb may need some adjustment). As for the extra weight, this is not a factor when using the floor peg (and I don't feel much difference even when playing standing up). As for the added complexity, the immensely enjoyable and satisfying sound of the extended range notes more than make up for it. As for the extra expense, the low C adds about seven or eight hundred dollars to the cost. Not all that much money when you're talking about five or six thousand dollars. Like I said, if you've got the bread get a low C (Selmer or Buffet). If you're on a budget get a low Eb--either a plastic Vito or a used wooden model. Bass is the place, and the lower the better.
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Author: CURT
Date: 2001-10-31 00:05
I have been playing on one of the new Low C Buffet Basses. The sound and rescponce is better than most that I have played. The downside is in the Mechanism. It's very complex. There are a lot of adjustment screws to go out as well as complex keys that activate over three and four fulcrums. The friction involved with these mechanisms really makes some of the key work difficult handle.
Truth be told, I really love the instrument these are just some of the flaws.
Good luck what exciting search this must be for you!
Curt
www.MusicMedic.com
Repair Kits and supplies...Cases
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2001-10-31 01:55
I have not had any problems with the extended mechanism on my Selmer 37. The action is smooth and light, no different than the rest of the mechanism, which is very good. There are some set screws that need to be watched, so anyone playing a bass cl., and in particularl a low C, should have a good set of screw drivers.
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Author: Aaron
Date: 2001-10-31 03:30
What CURT says about the new Buffet basses might have some credibility. However the added adjustment screws allow for a much easier adjustment to keys and pads that might need that litle tweak to get right.
The new Buffet basses are hands and feet above the older model from about 5 or more years agao. The mechanism on those old model Buffets were junk compared to the new mechanism. I have played bass for a while now and find the Buffet to be a great horn. It plays nice, the key action is very solid and has no give. It is also very quick in it's action and movement. The tone isn't quite there as it is with the Selmers, but it comes close. Also it's about $900 cheaper than the Selmer. You can pick up at Buffet for about $5000 anywhere in the country where the Selmer will be about $5900. It's only 900 more, which isn't much, but I'd at leat give the new Buffet a spin.
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Author: Stephen Froehlich
Date: 2001-10-31 04:16
Remember, Selmer went through a major revision of their extended mechanism about 5 years ago too. Honestly, the Selmers still win in the keywork category - they've been making serious basses so much longer than Buffet - it shows in the considerate keywork IMO. Buffet's bass keywork isn't poor, though. If you're buying a new instrument, play test both.
I also agree that if you're buying a new professional instrument the decision is much easier. If you're looking anything less than that, the cost/benefit tradeoff becomes much tougher.
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Author: DLE
Date: 2001-10-31 11:31
I'm sorry to be so boring, but after having played the bass clarinet for over a year without a low C extension, and having little troubles - I don't see the point in the extension UNLESS it is part of the original history of the instrument.
My POV is : If you want to play lower notes, BUY A CONTRABASS CLARINET!!
DLE.
Good luck on your choice.
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2001-10-31 12:36
DLE--
The history of the instrument should have little, if anything, to do with the decision. Bass clarinets used to only go down to low E, not E-flat, yet I wouldn't recommend that anyone use a bass clarinet that didn't go down to E-flat because many compositions now expect them to be able to do so.
The decision should be made on the basis of whether Mark can afford a low-C instrument and how frequently he expects to encounter notes below E-flat in his music. The answer to the latter question probably depends on what type of music he expects to be playing, for example, band or orchestra, modern or classical, and whether composers will be taking more advantage of the low-C instrument in the future.
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Author: mary
Date: 2001-10-31 20:10
I love my Buffet Prestige low C, and wouldn't have considered the low Eb. I've played musicals and Jazz parts (a bari sax double) that also go below Bb. But, only being 5'2", I need a tall chair or a couple of phone books to reach the mthpc!
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Author: DLE
Date: 2001-11-02 14:45
Don Poulsen,
I was being incredibly simple-minded at the time and possibly didn't explain my question to the best of my ability. When I said "History" of the instrument, I meant it to include the role it has, AND now plays in different types of music. It is no good having an extension if you are playing pieces from a point in history in which it didn't exist, for example.
Obviously cost is a problem, BUT you have to know all of the right places to purchase an instrument. I am from the UK, and believe me here you HAVE to know these places because you can save thousands of pounds, and lose nothing in clarinet quality, IF you purchase from the right place.
So, edging back to simplicity, you are absolutely right Don, but I am also - I think. SNAP!
Good luck Mark, in buying a Bass Clarinet from the UK - if you are still reading these posts, where have you decided to buy it from? (I come from Milton Keynes, and am currently at Lancaster Uni)
DLE.
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