 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Jim
Date: 2001-10-29 18:34
As a long time (but not terribly accomplished) clarinet
player, I recently tried my hand at tenor sax.
I found that with the exception of the bottom octive,
it felt quite natural to play. Tone and intonation sounded
quite good to me and the fingerings were surprisingly
similar to clarinet with only a few new ones to learn.
The low notes seem almost impossible, though. A
tiny bit too tight on the embouchure and they jump
up an octive. A tiny bit too loose, and nothing but air
(no sound). Just right and I get a sound like someone
trying to sing and gargle at the same time. Blowing
real hard seems to help a little, but the result
is a fortissimo blast that rattles the windows.
I suppose that these may be standard problems
that all beginning sax players need to deal with,
but it is frustrating given how easily playable
and sweet sounding the upper registers are.
Any other clarinetists been able to conquer this
beast and have any advice?
Thanks, Jim
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2001-10-29 19:03
For some mystifying reason, tenor sax and alto clarinet are the only reed instruments I simply could not ever play with any degree of success at all. So I won't even try to answer your question. However, something others will want to know is: what reed strength are you using?
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Author: Mike B.
Date: 2001-10-29 19:06
Hi -
I started on clarinet and play tenor sax as well. The two instruments are distinct, and you need to approach the tenor sax on a equal footing to the clarinet. The tenor sax embouchure is different than the clarinet embouchure. Specifically:
1. Lower lip more forward and more lip surface on the reed.
2. More rounded support of the mouthpiece (think of sucking your thumb in reverse.
3. Blow into the mouthpiece tip / reed (as opposed to across the mouthpiece tip / reed)
4. More air, slower air speed
The lower notes are always the hardest to learn. You should make sure there are no air leaks (if you haven't already). When I did this transition, playing a mouthpiece with a smaller tip opening helped a lot (Selmer C-80 E facing is a good tip opening, not C*). A lot of tenor players use very wide tip openings. These are very difficult to control. The Larry Teal book "The Art of Playing the Saxophone" (I'm not sure the title is exactly correct) is very useful, and pretty inexpensive.
Good luck! The tenor is a lot of fun, very expressive, and an extraordinarily useful double. Regards,
Mike B.
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Author: kenabbott
Date: 2001-10-29 21:03
Jim, it sounds like your tenor has a leak. Take your mouthpiece and try a well-maintained pro tenor. I'll bet that the low notes come out loud and clear.
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Author: Angela
Date: 2001-10-29 23:21
I remember switching from clarinet to tenor sax in jazz band last year and I just remember having to tell myself to keep the embouchure looser, mainly with the bottom lip; you don't really want the embouchure as tight. I'm really not quite sure about why this worked from a technical standpoint, but it did for me. It just takes practice and adjusting-eventually you'll get the hang of it. Also, keep the air support there(though this also might have been my own problem being I am always working on air support). The low notes need a lot of air and I always tried to think of pulling my jaw down a little. I hope this helps.
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Author: William
Date: 2001-10-30 03:29
A good friend of mine once described the air stream needed to produce low saxophone notes as "blowing warm air" at a window. I tend to use a, more or less, double lip kind of embouchure down around low C, B and Bb. You need to loosen your embouchure but still maintain support for the reed and use ultra-steady air--but gentle. It's a "balancing act" at best--and, a good responsive reed helps. It is just as important to search and work reeds for sax as it is for clarinet. My experiance is, however, that good reeds last much longer on sax than on clarinet. Hope this helps a bit--Good Sax'n!!!!!!!
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Author: Jim (E)
Date: 2001-10-30 04:38
My son, a really decent clarinetist, picked up the alto sax 2 months ago. It is already getting to sound good. He says that it is relatively easy. He's had no lessons on it yet, but will after auditions for all-state and college are over.
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Author: Jim
Date: 2001-10-30 10:41
Jim: Drop the mouthpiece cap into the bell of the horn and hear if the low notes do sound. The cap redirects the air flow and for some silly reason, the low notes sound. If this works, you have a leak in the lower bank of keys. Start with G and slowly play down as low as you can without a break. The note the break happens on is probably where the pad is leaking. Could be bad pad or key adjustment. Let a tech do the adjusting. You'll be much happier.
Jim(M)
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-10-30 13:22
Jim #1, good advice above, as with cls, the various saxes are different horns! I re-found out, playing pit orch "Wizard of OZ" reed 2, cl and tenor, that I was still an alto sax player, not a tenor, but struggled to get the low notes at moderate volume and stay reasonably in tune with our section. Practice X 3. Don
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Author: David
Date: 2001-10-30 16:47
Jim,
I played alto for many years and I currently learning to play clarinet. I to found similar comfort in fingering the instrument. Like the sax, I find the METAL clarinet needs to be warm before the ease of hitting those low notes. Not to imply that this is the reason, but only to make and observation. If you are accustomed to playing a wooden instrument, keep this in mind. I on the other hand, am having trouble with the high notes.
Good Luck,
David
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Author: Jim
Date: 2001-10-30 20:04
Thanks for all the feedback. I checked pretty carefully
for leaks by playing a bad note (G seems about the
worst) and then pressing harder on all suspect pads
to see if the tone would clear up. No problems pads
observed.
I then tried pressing hard with my thumb on the left
side of the reed just outside my lip. The tone cleared
right up. Pressing on the right side of the reed made
it noticably worse. Since this was consistent across
a few different reeds, I am suspicious the mouthpiece
may be defective in some way. When I can get the
chance, I will try some different mouthpieces.
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Author: Hiroshi
Date: 2001-10-30 23:04
>I am suspicious the mouthpiece may be defective in some way
I would suggest to try round throat mouthpieces at shop such as Selmer Supersession(there are several aperture selections). Another example is Selmer Soloist, which is not sold now and seeked by many like Kasper-Cicero or -Chicago for clarinet.
Some people, including me, seem to have a tendency to emit the lowest register very unstable with rectangular throat mouthpieces such as Selmer C*. I do not know the reason but it was true of me. Harmonics patterns may be quite different to match players aural cavity?
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Author: Cindy
Date: 2001-10-31 02:51
I was having a similar problem, but I could not buy a new mouthpiece because of price/school matters. I found out that by going chromatically in quarter notes from the G to the C, then starting a full step lower, going another step lower, and so on, making sure each note comes out clear and about mf, gives you practice in hitting the lower notes as well as warms up your horn, making it overall easier to hit the lower notes. You might also try going from high to low octaves to get used to adjusting you ombachure. Good luck, fellow beginner.
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