 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Mindy
Date: 2001-10-27 03:24
YEAH I finally got my Eb clarinet!!!!! I am soooooooooooooo happy!!!!! (as you can tell lol) It is really weird though....the holes and everything ......it is so small and together no space for anything lol
well I just was so happy I wanted to share it with you all!!
Mindy
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Author: John Gould
Date: 2001-10-27 08:57
Congratulations. A plus for playing Eb: if you're VERY good, you can win orchestral auditions on Eb, then graduate over to Bb-A later on. This is how Peter Hadcock got in the BSO as well as others (pick up his book The Working Clarinetist by Roncorp, you can get it from one of Sneezy's sponsors, Van Cott cl. books). It's so much fun to play, and once you are adept, will be in demand.
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Author: susannah
Date: 2001-10-27 09:35
what brand etc is it. I am thinking of getting one, what would you reccomend?
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Author: Peter
Date: 2001-10-27 15:30
Good for you, Mindy.
I have had an Eb soprano for a long time and, in spite of the fact that I have big hands, enjoy playing it very much.
I find that when I'm switching over to it, I just have to play it for a few minutes for muscle memory to kick in so I don't reach as far for the keys as I do on the Bb, and vice-versa.
I also travel often and sometimes, when I'm pressed for room it's a neat instrument to have, as the case is also much smaller than a Bb and can be easily carried or packed almost anywhere.
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Author: Larry Liberson
Date: 2001-10-27 19:35
John Gould mentions that playing Eb could potentially get one into an orchestral position where one could "graduate" into playing A/Bb.
Wrong.
This was not how Pete Hadcock (or anyone else, for that matter) got into a major (or not so major) orchestra.
If one does not "qualify" as a 'regular' clarinetist, they're likely to never get a chance to play the Eb in an audition. Don't forget that in Pete's (and many others) case, he was also the assistant principal of the BSO section. He didn't solely audition on Eb clarinet!
What playing Eb competently will do for you is to make you more versatile and marketable -- assuming you can actually play the little monster!
Best of luck!
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Author: John Gould
Date: 2001-10-28 09:31
Larry: Wrong.
On page 188 of The Working Clarinetist by Peter Hadcock , he writes:
"A third reason to play E-flat is that it can be of help when you are starting your career. Larry Combs, who is now playing Principal Clarinet with the Chicago Symphony, got into that orchestra as E-flat clarinetist. He also got his first orchestra job in New Orleans on E-flat before moving up to Principal. In the Buffalo Philharmonic, there have been at least three players who came in as E-flat Clarinetist and then moved up to Principal. Stanley Drucker (who also played E-flat in Buffalo!) joined the New York Philharmonic on E-flat before he moved up to principal there. In these, and many more instances, the E-flat clarinet has provided the means of getting a job, advancing to Principal, or moving to a larger orchestra."
I have played all three instruments, and, like many others, I learned on Bb, but increased my marketability via E-flat. Of course, one wouldn't expect to audition soley on E-flat all the time, but it has, on occasion, happened that way.
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Author: donald nicholls
Date: 2001-10-28 10:18
i've done some auditions where i was really congratulated on the quality of my e flat playing, but didn't get the audition because someone else played the Bflat/A better than me. If you can't do the exposition of the Mozart concerto better than the other guy, it doesn't seem to matter how well you can play Till Eulenspiegel or Daphnis etc....
i was recently told that i was "picked out as the best e flat" in an audition, but the guy who got the gig, he played Beet 6 better than i've ever heard it (well, at an audition anyway). At least i was beaten by a person and not a tape from overseas (which is what often happens here in NZ)
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Author: Larry Liberson
Date: 2001-10-28 11:52
Sorry, John, but you have misinterpreted what Pete has written.
In ALL of the examples you (and Pete, of course!) mentioned, the position filled by these gentlemen was not simply that of Eb clarinetist in their respective orchestras. Playing Eb clarinet was not what they did exclusively in those positions. Before assuming the principal clarinet chair in the NY Phil (in 1961, I believe), Mr. Drucker was the assistant principal and Eb clarinetist. Do you honestly believe that he only played the Eb clarinet on his audition for the NY Phil?
The case was no different for Pete or Larry in each of their positions. Often one will audition for a section position (which is no easy trick to succeed at!) in anticipation of what is understood to be an upcoming audition for principal in a given section. Often part of the responsibilities for that position will be that of playing Eb clarinet. That's what occurred in the cases that Pete has cited in his book.
What Pete appears to do in in his book is to refer to auditions and positions (and anecdotes) in full-time major professional orchestras--not school or community groups which may listen to somebody play Eb clarinet in order to satisfy an orchestration need for an occasional concert. There is quite a huge difference in how things operate between the two. Certainly, the job description of a given orchestral clarinet position is one of them.
As Donald Nicholls states above, you don't even get to the Eb excerpts in an audition if your A/Bb playing isn't up to snuff (except out of courtesy). I would invite you to poll the personnel managers of the major US orchestras to see when the last time (if ever!) they had an audition solely for Eb clarinet--and nothing else! I guarantee you a futile search, John.
Furthermore, depending on the configuration of a given clarinet section, you do a whole lot more A/Bb clarinet playing than Eb playing over the course of a season.
Take my word for it.
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Author: John Gould
Date: 2001-10-28 18:38
I of course was referring to Eb playing as an ADJUNCT to Bb-A playing, as was Peter H. It's understood that your success on cl. is contingent on how well you play all clarinets (including Eb) with emphasis on the Bb-A. This is what I interpreted from the article and DUH, not an audition based soley on Eb. As to whether or not I'm misinterpreting what I read, take my word for it: I'm not.
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2001-10-28 19:23
Mindy -
Congratulations. Now that you are an effer player, you have to tell us stories about playing it.
I played nothing but Eb for a year in the University of Tennessee Band and the Knoxville Symphony, and it was loads of fun. (Strangely, I went to it right after playing nothing but contrabass for a year in the West Point Band.) The more instruments you play, the better your chances, and each reinforces the other.
Pete Hadcock wrote two great books, "The Working Clarinetist" on what it takes to be a pro, and another (I forget the exact title) just about the Eb. This has the complete Til Eulenspiegel part transposed from D to Eb, all the standard excerpts, and lots of other essential information for the Eb player.
Have fun, and practice playing soft as well as loud. A lot of the time, you're there to add a little sparkle, and not to be the soloist. It's the very best kind of practice.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: donald nicholls
Date: 2001-10-28 21:59
it's certainly great playing the e flat- especially once you get a good mouthpiece. I play a Zinner A frame, refaced by Brad Behn of Tulsa, using B flat reeds with the butts chopped off and a German string ligature. I used my friends Harrison E flat ligature, and loved it- i need to hunt for one of these but i suspect they might be a little hard to find.
another player down here tried to make a fool of me by not giving me the E flat part (or orchestra instrument) until the day before the first rehearsal (proffesional symphony orchestra with high school politics), and i just scrapped through the concert (+ a pad was falling off the low C/F key of the horn i had to use!). This showed me, too, that it could be VERY EASY to make a fool of yourself on eefer, but i absolutely love it!
keep playing the good tunes
donald
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Author: Larry Liberson
Date: 2001-10-29 02:54
DUH? Well, certainly a sophisticated and mature response, for sure. 
John, I apologize if I have misunderstood what I believe you said in your posts. You mentioned in your first post that "if you're VERY good, you can win orchestral auditions on Eb, then graduate over to Bb-A later on." I commented that this was not the case (at least in the real world of major professional orchestras) and I stand by that. You also stated (in your following post) that "one wouldn't expect to audition soley on E-flat all the time, but it has, on occasion, happened that way." I also commented that I didn't believe that to be accurate. At any rate, if it HAS happened "that way," I would love to learn the details of that. Could you fill us in on that? Lastly, you next said that "I of course was referring to Eb playing as an ADJUNCT to Bb-A playing," which now appears to contradict your first statement about winning auditions on Eb, etc. Perhaps you could further clarify all this so that a rather slow clarinet player such as myself could understand what you're getting at?
As far as my statement as to your 'misinterpretation' (or not) of Pete: since you quoted him as what I thought to be a support of your first post, I could only infer that it was your line of thinking--especially since you used that quote to tell me I was wrong in my assertion that those such as Pete and Larry did not win an audition on Eb and 'graduate"--that this was the way things work in the major orchestra audition world. My experiences and those of my colleagues have proven otherwise.
Perhaps you can relate your own audition experiences, John?
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Author: Larry Liberson
Date: 2001-10-29 02:58
To Ken Shaw:
The other Hadcock book is "Orchestral Studies for the Eb Clarinet," published by Roncorp. A very fine book with many suggested fingerings (not all of which will work with all horns, of course) and insightful commentary. Invaluable.
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Author: donald nicholls
Date: 2001-10-29 19:32
the DUH thing was obnoxious, i'm not playing with you guys anymore
(the Homer Simpson of clarinetists? oh, no- that's DOH)
donald
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Author: Larry Liberson
Date: 2001-10-29 19:58
Yes, I also thought the "DUH" to be somewhat condescending, if not obnoxious (especially since it was directed at me!)--which I why I (apparently, much to Julia's chagrin) responded. I hope (and believe) that my posts have been respectful and courteous, even though I had an issue with somebody's (in this case, John's) comments. Furthermore, I really would like him to clarify his statements as they appear to be conflicting with each other, etc.--at least as far as I understand them to be.
There is so much that can be learned from reading the various posts on this bulletin board....however, there is also a great deal of inaccuracy and misinformation. John certainly has the right to post what he believes to be fact and I have just as much right to dispute it.
We all have are own education and experiences to draw upon here. Some are greater and more extensive than others, of course. That I why I suggested that John enlighten us with his. I, of course, would be glad to do the same, if asked.
Just a final note to Julia about being asked to cool it.....gee....thanks...I didn't realize I was so hot....
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