 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: John
Date: 2001-05-12 14:08
My daughter has been using my 1900's Buffet almost daily. It produces a beautiful sound, and plays in tune. her solos and duets have advanced to the state level the last two years. She recently won a nice music scholarship at her new college on it.
The question - To get ready for college, I would like for a very good tech to put it in excellent playing condition. The estimate is to rebuild one or two keys, making new rods and tubes before repadding and recorking the clarinet. Will this hurt the value of the clarinet? The serial number and keywork show it to have been made between 1900 and 1910.
No, this is certainly not an investment for my retirement. Just for the joy of making good music.
I value your collective opinion - thanks for your consideration.
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Author: Anji
Date: 2001-05-12 15:06
If this is a modern-key system (not the Albert or simple system) then the investment will be worthwhile.
These old horns had real tonal character, the only downside is that the mechanical actions are arguably better on modern instruments (tighter manufacturing tolerances).
If you can get a few keys replaced and an overhaul for under $200, it is well worthwhile.
If the cost is approaching $500, you may wish to consider other options.
(Then again, there are no big letters behind my name.)
anji
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-05-12 21:16
Nor behind mine, Anji, except for BS and [fof]. There have been significant improvements in cl's in these 80-100 years [assuming you might wish to get an 80's + model pro? horn instead of rebuilding an oldie] which IMHexperience are very worthwhile. I have several early 1900's horns, and much prefer playing the later ones for "feel" and intonation reasons. Luck, Don
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-05-12 23:15
Good, experienced comments above from Don & Anji.
I guess the smartest place to begin is to take the value of the horn + the cost to restore + other little fixes and add it all together. Compare that number to a new Pro horn with a warranty, new case, new keywork & (possibly) a more modern bore.
I take nothing away from the old beauties you speak of. However, please bear in mind that, as a general rule, clarinets do not increase in value with age/time (& realtive use). Sounds like it is incumbent upon you to support a talented player AND that is your calling here, not to support the intrinsic values of an older, quality horn.
Best,
mw
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Author: ron b
Date: 2001-05-13 00:47
Hi, John;
No one has to tell me, I already know. Now, you too will soon know that I'm an old fashioned hick with an old fashioned hick's philosophy that... If it plays good and a little fixin' will keep it playing good -- fix it 
Seriously, fixing a horn, done properly, will not lower its value. If it's a good player and has, as yours does I'm sure, some personal/sentimental value it's worth fixing. If the wood is sound and the the keywork, other than what needs to be re-done, isn't too worn it's considered a fair-to-good, possibly excellent instrument. The variables to evaluating a used musical instrument are nearly infinite.
Newer horns are certainly nice but they don't make 'em like they used to; they try to make 'em better. However, there's plenty of room for debate whether they're succeeding :
It's really a matter of what You and Your Daughter want to do. Does she want to continue playing a perfectly fine restored Buffet or start college fresh with a perfectly fine new Buffet(or ?)... ?
I feel the only way to decide is to go to a 'store' where your daughter can try several instruments and compare them with the one she's using now, keeping in mind that it needs a little upgrading and will still be good many years from now :]
Best wishes,
- ron b -
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Author: John
Date: 2001-05-13 01:55
Thank you all for your fine comments! I play a very nice late 60's Buffet, which my daughter has access to. She really prefers the lighter sound of the older Buffet. As for playing down the road, she wants to major in English - and minor in Philosophy! I think my 5 semesters trying to pass sophomore English is coming back to haunt me!
In the interest of keeping that wonderful sound alive, I'm going ahead with the rebuild.
Thank you again.
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Author: Mark Pinner
Date: 2001-05-13 02:16
Most of my horns, believe me I've got a few are old, to antique and admittedly all simple systems but the quality of wood used and the length of seasoning can make for a better tone quality. Some of the manufacturers now boast that instruments are made from wood seasoned for 10 years, wow!! Some of the older instruments had wood that was seasoned for 20, 30, 40 or more years. Ask any serious bassoonist for example which Heckel thay would prefer given a choice and most would say pre war and often models from the 20's.
Repair to keywork and new rods will not significantly effect the value of the instrument if they are done well. That sort of BS is more related to saxophones!
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Author: ron b
Date: 2001-05-14 04:22
Good choice, John (in my opinion of course).
LIke Mark, above, I too have several older (Albert) horns. The wood is definitely still good, a little scratched and nicked here and there but, still good. Mechanism needs attention from time to time as does anything mechanical. Still, they play just fine.
I'm presently overhauling a mid-1940s Buffet (Boehm). Even though the keys haven't yet been swedged (tightened) it plays wonderfully well. The only problem it has is the rusty guy on the MPC end :')
- ron b -
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2001-05-15 18:16
John -
Buffets from 1900 or so come up on eBay often, where they sell for around $300 without an overhaul, and $550 with one. The problem with the ones on auction is that you never know whether they've been abused or, worse, had the bore altered or a joint shortened. That's probably not a problem with yours. However, unless yours is truly exceptional or was owned by a well-known player, I don't think it has particular value to a collector.
The intonation on these instruments is less steady than on modern ones. You have to *play* them in tune. Also, on a heavily used instrument, the keys get fatigued and bend out of shape easily. You keep a repair technician busy if you play one. If, as you say, yours needs some keys rebuilt and new rods and tubes, it may have too much wear to withstand the hours of daily practice that your daughter will put on it if she becomes a music major.
On the other hand, these instruments have a wonderful tone (actually, many wonderful tones), elegant, hand-forged keys and beautiful, dense-grained wood. When properly adjusted, they are a pleasure to play.
I have a Buffet Bb from 1939 that has a lot of wear, and it takes constant fiddling. On the other hand, I was lucky enough to find a Buffet C clarinet from 1928 that had never been used, and it stays in perfect adjustment. My main instrument is an R-13 that I got new in 1974. It doesn't have quite the beauty of sound of the older instruments, but it's easier to play and a lot more reliable.
Ralph McLane (principal in Philadelphia) had maybe the best A clarinet ever, which was made in the mid-1930s. Harold Wright (principal in Boston) got it after McLane's death. I was at a concert 20 years ago where Wright played the Brahms Quintet on it, and it was the finest performance of any clarinet work I've ever heard. He said afterward that he used the instrument only for an occasional solo performance. It was delicate, and he wanted to preserve it as much as possible.
You might send your instrument to a top repair shop -- say, Brannen -- and ask for their advice on whether it can withstand several hours of daily use. My prediction is that they will advise you to get your daughter a new clarinet, or a relatively new used one and to get the old one fixed up and save it for special occasions -- recitals, auditions and so on.
Another thing to consider is that the clarinet prof where your daughter goes to college will be able to advise her on instruments and be able to locate and test new instruments for her. If she becomes a performance major, she will need an A clarinet, and you can usually save by buying both a Bb and an A together. Thus the best solution may be to have the old instrument fixed up (particularly if it tends to stay in adjustment) and wait a year to get her a new Bb.
Your daughter won't go wrong playing your clarinet. She won't go wrong with a new one, either. Only you and she can balance the tradeoffs.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Janna
Date: 2001-10-24 17:03
I've always thought that the clarinet should be repaired. Of course, I'm biased...I wanted to bring it to college with me. Don't worry all, I'm taking great care of it, but I am practicing plenty. From what I've experienced with newer clarinets, they just don't sound or feel like the good ol' Buffets. It almost feels like the 1894 Boehm system Buffet was built for me; not even my dad's '60's R-13 Buffet feels as comfortable to hold or play as my clarinet (he says it's his, but he already has several good clarinets, so I think it's mine). And WOW!!, the sound/tone quality is simply amazing!! I may not be majoring/minoring in music, but I'll be playing this clarinet for a long long time yet.
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