 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Jason Moffat
Date: 2001-10-21 21:00
I have recently just started clarinet, I have played a variety of intruments for 14 years now and have picked up the clarinet with relative ease (thank god), I love the instrument!
I am playing on a borrowed Vito Plastic job who's tone is a little poor as can be expected, but fun nevertheless. I have been looking at a variety of instruments and from the descriptions, the :Leblanc Pete Fountian seems up my street, loud and meaty or 'fat' in more eloquent terms. What do others think is what I am after, am I throwing my money away on an expensive toy or is it a good buy - I have little interest in playing classical music, even though I do love it, blues and jazz is more up my playing street. I am still finding out how much this model is, so this may perhaps be a decider anyway, banks are becoming more and more difficult to hold up these days... does anyone else find this to be true?
All comments welcome, thanks
Jason
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Author: Jack Swickard
Date: 2001-10-21 21:15
Jason,
The Pete Fountain Leblanc is a heck of a fancy horn--especially in gold plate with all the extra keys--but it will set you back a whole bunch. Probably about $2000 used (I have seen them sell for more than that on ebay) and over $3000 new. A regular Leblanc, Selmer, or Buffet might be a better bet.
I own a Pete Fountain and a R-13 "Vintgage"--but I prefer my R13.
Happy hunting
Jack
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Author: jmcaulay
Date: 2001-10-21 21:33
Jason Moffat wonders:
>...banks are becoming more and more difficult to hold up these days... does anyone else find this to be true?
Jason, I do believe this to be a bit off-topic for the sneezy Phorum. In any event, I would prefer not to publicize my opinion re comparative difficulties of bank robbery, modern vs. "olden days."
However, regarding the clarinet question, *you* are the one who has to be happy with the clarinet you select. If it works best for you, then your selection is just fine with me. Many players enjoy the "Pete Fountain" model, which might even be available new at a discount now that it has been replaced by the "Big Easy," a newer model. Have fun slecting. Playing, too.
Regards,
John
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Author: Peter
Date: 2001-10-21 21:37
IMHO:
The Peter Fountain horn is worth every penny of that to someone who wants to spend it and play jazz with it.
As Jack said just before me, there are several less expensive and quite suitable, but, in my opinion, they may not play quite like a Pete Fountain model.
And while I think the R-13 is one truly great instrument, I don't necessarily think it is the "mostest and the bestest" for everything you may want to do with a clarinet.
To each his own, but if you do get a Pete Fountain model, the cost of the instrument will warrant that you travel to, and spend a couple of days someplace that has a stock of the instruments and you can try several before you decide which one you want to purchase.
If you are looking for a used one, again, make a deal and don't buy it without trying it out.
Instruiments like this I'd rather buy new where I can hear several, side by side, and am better able to determine which sound I like best. Even take a quality cassette recorder with you so you can hear how you sound with each individual horn.
Seems like too much trouble? Not nearly as much as winding up with an instrument, the sound of which you realized you did not like three months down the road!!!
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Author: Fred
Date: 2001-10-21 22:14
Are you interested in a less expensive option - not quite a Pete Fountain but definitely different from most modern orchestral clarinets? If so, consider an older Selmer.
A Balanced Tone or Centered Tone from yesteryear - along with other Selmers that had no fancy nickname - played great for Benny Goodman and the jazz players of that day. You can get into a horn like that for perhaps 1/3 to 1/4 of what you are looking at in a Pete Fountain. Worth considering while you decide what you want to sound like. Another advantage - these horns have proven their worth and hold their value.
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Author: Ken
Date: 2001-10-21 22:29
With its 15.00mm bore the PF is decidedly a jazz soloists' horn and can pump out the volume. The horn is best suited for trad jazz environments, big band doubler, and also superb for any type of small to moderate combo work. But, I've always been an advocate of "the right tool for the right job". If jazz is the path you've chosen it's a great choice, although a little steep in price. As a money-saving alternative and self-improvement effort I'd consider investing extra practice time increasing your "dynamic range" first before taking the plunge, maybe try out some pro entry-level used Buffets like a basic R-13. In the long run, you could bank $2,000+ and come out a stronger player. Used R-13s and Festivals, (I'd stay away from Prestiges myself, they notoriously play stiff and closed) that are well maintained and previously owned by pro players will aptly do they job. Generally, Buffets have a reputation as very flexible horns, equally at home in classical and jazz venues. Also, consider a good used Leblanc Concerto or Opus, they blend just as well for the jazz. Combine a quality open piece, hard reed and big sound, and you can hang with the best of them, lead/predominate over a big band or even compete with a blasting trumpet and bone section.
I myself the past 5 years have been playing Dixieland and swing jazz on an Opus, (though primarily advertised as an orchestral horn). It's a wonderfully flexible horn and I have no problem filling it out even on the low end.
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2001-10-21 22:39
The Pete Fountain is available (at least until very recently) in standard Boehm keywork. These run (or did run) about $1700 new. In the same range as the R13. It's the extra keywork (articulated G#/C#, forked Bb/Eb) model that starts to get pricey (particularly with the gold plate). I've heard the PF is being discontinued but I didn't know the successor is called the "Big Easy". I wonder what the difference is.
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Author: Jason Moffat
Date: 2001-10-21 22:42
Talking of tone, I must say I have only a limited knowledge of the varied tones of the clarinet - but I can hear what I want in my head. I currently play bass in a few different fusion, jazz and blues outfits and play with a few Sax players so the tones I hear are quite varied, depending on the musician and setting. I pretty much like the tone on some of Tom Waites recordings (sorry, not sure of his name), otherwise it is as always, the tone can quite often, as on many instruments, be due to the style of the musician. So I don't expect any particular instrument to deliver my' sound' I would just like it to get the correct footing so to speak.
The thing I am most unsure about is whether it is okay to risk a second hand instrument, I am okay with stringed instruments, I can tell a lot about these due to experience, but clarinets... are all new to me Thanks, you are all very helpfull.
J
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Author: Jason Moffat
Date: 2001-10-21 22:50
...particularly with the gold plate...
The fancy PF Leblancs I am not really too concerned about, I am a no-frill person, the sound and build quality are the important factors to me.
J
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2001-10-21 23:01
The gold plate is too showy for my taste but I like the look (and feel) of silver.
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Author: William
Date: 2001-10-21 23:11
It may be worth remembering that Pete has credited his "big" jazz sound to his "world class" sound technicians (when I last saw him in N.O. he was playing right into a mike) and his classical mpc/reed set-up. In the interview I read in THE CLARINET, I do not recall him giving any credit, for his great jazz sound, to his clarinet. I agree with the above advice on the economics of trying some older Selmers for that "vintage" jazz sound. The "Pete Fountain" LeBlanc may be a bit over-rated, as well as generously priced. Good Clarineting!!
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Author: Jason Moffat
Date: 2001-10-21 23:44
Something I had suspected was that there were likely to be other factors that dictate the distinctive sound of an instrument within a music style. There is perhaps something to be said for older instruments, but in my case, I have little knowledge of telling factors in the longlevity or lack thereof of a clarinet, that is why I would ideally like to buy new. This leaves me with an initial high price tag, so I am looking at the affordable, new and quality with a not too 'structured' tone (does this make any sense), a tall order perhaps.
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Author: Mike Harrelson
Date: 2001-10-22 01:37
If you just "recently just started clarinet" your poor tone may not be the fault of the borrowed vito plastic job. Give yourself some more time. (And don't buy a clarinet because of the description).
Good luck, I know you're gonna enjoy clarinet.
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Author: Jason Moffat
Date: 2001-10-22 08:19
Hi Mike, you may well be correct, but I think there is something quite noticable about a plastic wind instrument that sounds, well plastic, it is quite subtle in the lower register but higher up, I find it quite noticable, it could just be me though, who knows. It has to be said my tone is not always consistant, but in time nd all that.
I have to buy an instrument anyway as the one I am using is not mine, so I thought that a good model of any instrument is better to start with than a poor one, thanks for the good wishes
J
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-10-22 14:40
I've owned a Pete Fountain clarinet and it's ok, but not a great instrument for the price. And, since it's been discontinued from Leblanc's line up it might be hard to find a new one if you're hoping to purchase a new clarinet. The "Big Easy" (as has been pointed out) is the identical instrument without the signature. The bore size and specs are the same. Woodwind and Brasswind carries it, as does International Musical Suppliers--you might check with one of those two sources. The Leblanc LL has a similar tone and is more easily available in the used instrument department.
But, I'd go with some mouthpiece changes and work with your tone on your present instrument before investing in another clarinet. You would be amazed at how "big and full" your tone could be with a good mouthpiece. If you want an open, jazz mouthpiece you might try Vandoren's 5JB, or you might look into Fobes or one of the handmades from one of the Sneezy sponsors.
I use a greenline R-13 for all my big band and jazz stuff. It's unbeatable with tone, etc.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2001-10-22 17:03
To clear up some points in the postings above- I believe that the Selmer 10 series in all configurations was a smaller bore clarinet. The Series 9 was the last of the larger bore horns with little or no undercutting to tone holes (as was the Centered Tone). So the 9 may also be a good used horn as well.
Pete Fountain does give credit to Leblanc for his instruments. I have read some things in the past and particularly recently where he speaks very highly of his new horns. His set up is more of a open jazz style with softer reeds, not particularly like a classical set up.
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2001-10-22 18:08
I believe that Don Q. is right about the original 10S being a bigbore. I think it was the next in succession (possibly 10S*?) that was the smallbore.
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Author: Jason Moffat
Date: 2001-10-22 19:05
I'll keep a look out for that, I am in the UK so the US based clainets are a bit of a problem, thanks
J
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Author: Randy
Date: 2001-10-22 19:20
Since you are in the UK why not look into getting an older Boosey and Hawkes horn they have large bores and are good for jazz and blues
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Author: Jason Moffat
Date: 2001-10-22 19:36
There aren't too many semi-pro ones about second hand, not that I have seen anyway, I may go into the Boosey & Hawkes store this week and have a look.
Just seen some articles on Crystal Mouth pieces, any comments, I may regret this question of course...
J
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Author: Peter
Date: 2001-10-23 05:16
If I had known you are in the UK, I also would have recommended the old B&Hs.
I have several, but in particular, probably the jazz horn I like best is an old B&H Imperial with a Vandoren B-40 mouthpiece (I too, like to be able to walk into almost any music store and buy a mouthpiece.)
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Author: Jason M
Date: 2001-10-23 08:24
I've seen a B&H Imperial 926 advertised for £325, any thoughts on that?
Many thanks
J
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Author: Jason M
Date: 2001-10-23 09:57
The serial Number on this is apparently 475871, so proabaly 10-15 years old?
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Author: connie
Date: 2001-10-23 17:03
Back to the Pete Fountain...
I bought a new "Big Easy" at the ClarinetFest, nickel-plated, no extra keys, for $1800 thru International Music. There were several for me to try, so that was definitely good. I was surprised that it came with a Pete Fountain (crystal) mouthpiece, which I had seen in discount catalogs at around $80-90 several years ago. (It also came with Pete Fountain reeds...I was hoping they would just put Pete himself in the case!)
I started playing this horn with my G. Smith mouthpiece, and liked the sound a lot. Then I tried the mouthpiece that came with the horn, and WOW, what a big sound. The PF mouthpiece does not sound good on my old Leblanc or on my Buffet.
I use the PF for solo playing, like in church, when I need to be heard over the organ, a trumpet, or 4 guitars. I use my Buffet in ensembles with other clarinets. They each have advantages. I can tone the PF down to play with anyone else, but it definitely has a BIG sound, and is much easier to blow (less resistant) than the R13.
It still has Pete's name on the barrel and on the bell.
Hope this helps.
connie
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Author: Jason M
Date: 2001-10-23 17:45
I think I am going to struggle to get one in the UK, they are very keen on European Models, snobs! Sounds good though, I think probably a bit pricey still for me, they tend to be more expensive over here, I am planning however to get a crystal mouthpeice as big soiunds are what I like. I struggle with this plastic Vito to maintain the high register, not so much out of breath but a real pain the @*!& to play for prolonged periods, especialy as I am still discovering the instrument.
That B&H Imperial 926 was snatched from me before I could try it damn!
This thread is MASSIVE!
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Author: dan powell
Date: 2001-10-23 23:19
i play a lot of jazz clarinet professionally and highly recomend the vandoreen 5jb mpc. best jazz mpc for the money hands down! if you have the money for a PETE FOUANTIN go for it but i think you would be just as happy with a selmer 9 . you can buy a good used one for 1/3 the price of a new pete fountain. the leblanc LL is also a great jazz horn. ebay alaways has a big selection of good horns at low prices. unless its a buffet you have to almost give away a clarinet on ebay
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2001-10-25 17:07
As a low-priced alternative for someone looking for a large-bore clarinet, may I suggest the 1955-1958 Boosey & Hawkes "The Edgware" models --- millions of them on eBay selling for peanuts ---- nice wood, good sound, OK (though far from perfect) intonation, and rugged although the key design has numerous ergonomic flaws (correctable, but very irritating unless corrected).
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