 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ~ jerry
Date: 2001-10-16 11:56
Did anyone watch the movie last evening? I was disapointed that we saw so little of Artie Shaw.
Did it appear to anyone that he may not have been playing -- that the music was dubbed in? I think they did a lot of that then (maybe today too). It just didn't seem to me that he was really playing.
One thing that I noticed was something that my teacher would get on to me about. My teacher would tell me to keep my head up and the horn down. It sure didn't look like Artie played that way -- horn seemed to be almost parallel with the floor (although at times he was bending back slightly -- but still.........).
Also, it appeared that he would open his mouth (completely away from the MP) to breathe. I was told to just losen the embouchure enough to breathe in through the sides of my mouth.
I wonder where one could get videos (with close ups) of the professionals, to study technique.
~ jerry
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-10-16 13:56
Hi Jerry - Yes, I recorded the A S portions of the "Co-Ed, and also had some thots re: his playing at times was peculiar!, emb and fingering. Will look at it before long, have to communicate re: our Italian mp refacer's questions now. I did record [some?] of the later movies, after wasting my time watching the "Bachelor" farce, so may have more A S playing, wasn't sure if the introductory and final music was his or not. Am trying to recall the name of the tunes played. Fun, tho, Don
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Author: Peter
Date: 2001-10-16 14:49
Jerry,
I don't know about close-ups, but PBS occasionally runs documentaries of the old time jazz and players, so does Biography. We have two PBS radio and two PBS TV stations here who are always trying to out-do each other and get to see those things every now and then.
There are one or another actual films of some concerts by different old time players. I would also be interested in where to purchase some if they were available for sale to the public.
Artie Shaw also did a classical music tour throughout the country, during which he played with some of the better symphony orchestras of the time. There were films of that around, if they haven't deteriorated by now.
As far as their technique, I have also seen some of the "great" jazz players do the things you describe your teacher telling you not to do. Benny Goodman, Woody Herman, Jimmy Dorsey and Henry Cuesta all did those things regularly.
The breathing thing, especially when they were playing a "hot" piece and perhaps needed to intake air in a hurry.
As far as the position of the clarinets, I've seen them actually point them at the ceiling when trying to get more sound out of them(?). I've always wondered if it may have had something to do with the acoustics, i.e: reaching for an overhead boom microphone to get a bigger sound?
But let's not discount the possibility of showmanship.
A jazz man who holds an instrument the way a clarinet should be properly held, is not as exciting a sight as one who holds it up, as though the tune he's playing is too hot to handle.
All (or most) of the playing and singing in movies where the people who are doing it are also dancing or moving around, has, generally, always been dubbed. I learned that from an old friend who was a retired (from MGM) cinematographer.
Movies are supposed to be picture perfect, and dubbing allows a "player" to concentrate on one action at a time, therefore do it better. Especially those who are not accomplished "song-and-dance" types.
It's more cost-effective to dub in sound than to re-shoot a scene because a sound flaw.
In the case of peole like Artie Shaw, it doesn't mean it wasn't him playing, it just means he may not have been doing it during the actual filming of the scene. I taped the movie and will look at it again, but last night I seemed to think the dubbing was only in the marching scene? Today I'm not real sure.
That he did not take a longer playing part, I consider myself lucky any time I get to see guys like him play at all!
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Author: Bill
Date: 2001-10-17 14:28
I've been listening to Artie Shaw's "Concerto for Clarinet." I can't get over the responsoivness of his instrument---more correctly, the intimacy of what he is able to put through it, musically. I can't get over WHY this isn't so in classical performance in all but a few players (Kell). I like Frederick Thurston and that tight, secure playing, but I can't help wondering what Artie Shaw might have made of Mozart or Weber. And since the time of Thurston, the standard orchestra chair sound has modified into such a heavy, brass tone---all trumpet and no feathers. Sure, music is different and performance needs to change to reflect the differences. Yet I'm tired of the notes being wrapped in steel. --BF.
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