 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: DLE
Date: 2001-10-06 17:40
Hiya, it's been a while. My clarinets and I have got along for the most part over the last few months, but now I have a really annoying problem with the Bass Clarinet.
To start with, it is 70 years old, which I think may be a factor in why it is being annoying! (No offence to people over 70)
The problem is: Every time I go to play anything in the middle range from an E to a G-sharp, It almost always squeaks. I have tried pressing the keys down harder and easing into the notes, and although this combination does help a little, it makes the thing very difficult to play in bands, when I am sight-reading. It embarrasses me basically!
Possibly it is a problem with one of the pads, but I don't think so since they were all replaced just before I got to university (Which is where I am now by the way). So, either it is a 'ME' problem (i.e. the way I am playing it is wrong, which has been known to happen), or the thing is justold, and needs more pressing on the keys, and nursing in the mouthpiece.
I would appreciate any help that you can give me.
DLE.
- Note for anyone thinking of taking up Bass:
Despite the complaints I have made, it is a fantastic instrument that I would never give up, and I would recommend it to anyone who is a proficcient clarinettist (Young, or mature).
Oh! And I apologise for the comment on age at the beggining. I was talking about old clarinets, not old people.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Robert Small
Date: 2001-10-06 17:56
Get it checked for leaks. If it responds better when you squeeze the keys it's probably a leak. Also the clarion E--G# range is usually a little more resistant than the rest of the range so try to avoid tensing up and forcing the sound. You need to be relaxed, particularly in the mid-clarion.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: sarah
Date: 2001-10-06 21:00
yes, check for leaks. that happened to a bass that i played, and it was new. another thing about that register, i found it helped if i made my mouth and throat more open.
sarah
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Stephen Froehlich
Date: 2001-10-07 03:08
I agree, if this is throat e-g then its almost certainly a leak in one of the four or five pads above it. What kind of horn is this? If it has a double register key (and I hope it does), that is the most likely suspect. Its easy to check by simply applying pressure to each pad in turn while you're playing (great thing about pegs) and seeing if the tone improves. Dave Spiegelthal seems to specialize in the overhaul of Basses in this age category, you might want to talk to him.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: willie
Date: 2001-10-07 04:39
Basses and contras are very contankerous(sp) even with small minute leaks. Check for leaks, even small ones. Also check the register key. Some go out of adjustment very easy.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: graham
Date: 2001-10-07 12:29
I have a bass about the same age. I think this is a problem register for basses, and that may be accentuated by the age of the instrument (design rather then being worn out). You jsut have to make the best of it.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2001-10-07 15:32
DLE -
The first thing to check is whether the lower register vent (used for middle B through Eb and controlled by levers attached to the right ring finger plate) is closing completely when you raise your right ring finger. Even a tiny leak can produce the squeaks you describe. Often, this vent stays a tiny bit open if you move from a note vented by it to a higher note. Check this by playing E through G# without slurring to them from a lower note, or slurring down from A. Then, slur up to them from D or Eb, lifting your right ring finger slowly. This will quickly show you if the vent is'nt closing completely. A little cork grease where the mechanism slides can often cure the problem temporarily, but a relaible adjustment is tricky, and it really needs to be done by a repair technician.
You should also check whether the pad for the left ring finger key is covering properly. Any leak there will make the E to G# unstable
The notes from E to G# in the second register are a problem on every bass clarinet. They're at the bottom of the range controlled by the upper register vent, and thus they are less than ideal acoustically. Try a slightly softer reed and take a little more mouthpiece. The proper amount is so that your lower lip is exactly beneath the point where the reed separates from the lay of the mouthpiece.
The tip of the reed should be a tiny bit higher than the tip of the mouthpiece -- maybe the width of a thin pencil line (0.2 mm.). This lets the reed wrap along the lay and seal even with the mouthpiece tip. Any leak there will lead to squeaks.
Also, as I've said before, the reed should be a tiny bit narrower than the mouthpiece rails -- the same thin pencil line amount. Any lapping over the sides by the reed kills the response, and there is always a "sweet spot" when you move the reed side to side by microscopic amounts.
Playing double lip helps a lot.
Bass requires a lot more air than Bb. Drop your belly down and out and breathe in down to your hips. Fill up from the bottom until your chest rises naturally on top of the air. Then relax down and let the air run out without blowing. Any push should be down, not up.
The air supports the tone.
When you get used to this, you can relax your embouchure. At least as an experiment, move away from what you have been taught about pointing your chin and keeping it flat. Put your upper lip/teeth very high on the mouthpiece and drop your jaw down and back, making a bassoonist's "Andy Gump" embouchure, using next to no pressure on the reed, from either the top or the bottom. Let the mouthpiece float, with your lips just making an air seal around it, and let the air do all the work.
Don't try to play loud. The air column from your belt to your mouth connects with reed and the mouthpiece to create their own natural resonance. Let them do the work.
Try this for a few days. Then give us a report, and maybe there will be other things to try.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Stephen Froehlich
Date: 2001-10-08 03:54
Great advice, Ken. I'll have to try narrowing my reeds a little more than I do now.
By the way, how many prewar Basses have a double bridge key that puts D,C#,C,B on the lower vent and not the upper?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: DLE
Date: 2001-10-08 11:57
Hi,
Just to let you know that the concert last night went really well, and Ken's reed + Mouthpiece suggestion worked like a charm - it only squeaked once!!
It could be the register out of alignment, I'll have to check that...
Otherwise, I want to congratulate, and thank all of you for a job well done - the concert was a success thanks to this BBoard, and you are all a testament to what this board stands for.
Thank you,
DLE.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2001-10-08 12:40
Stephen -
All modern bass clarinets have two register vents. The earlier ones have no automatic mechanism -- just two separate keys for the left thumb. You switch back and forth between them manually. I believe Steve Freeman (N.Y. Philharmonic) uses a turn-of-the-century Selmer with a manual mechanism.
I'm not sure when the automatic mechanism came in. Some of the repair gurus will know.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-10-08 14:41
Ken - We all appreciate your [and other's] analyses of the bass's clarion problems. It mirrors my experience with my '70's Selmer-Paris re: the lower register key pad seating. As to the DRK history, I have an old [40-50's] Conn wood bass, to low E only, which has a well-worked-out DRK mechanism. Will look further. Don
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: DLE
Date: 2001-10-10 11:29
Okay, now I'm just confused. My Bass is over 70 years old, so does it use a Manual system, or auto (On the register keys)?? I think it's manual, but then how would I know? I haven't the faintest idea what you are talking about.
DLE.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
