 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-10-06 16:44
eBay Auction for Buffet (Ched?) Mouthpiece :
"This is an older buffet mouthpiece blank made for buffet by the chedeville company. It is a different blank than the blank from the 50's. It is untouched and has plenty of material to recieve a facing. It most likely dates from the late 60's or a little later. It is very clean and has never been played. I'm sorry I have no pictures. It has the buffet symbol stamped on the back, and the three bottom ligature lines. It has france on the left next to the foot of the lay."
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Seller states that the markings to the right of Table at lowe extremity is "C Crown".
Seller stated that Rick Sayre had looked at the mouthgpiece and stated that it had not been faced. This (seems to) directly contradict TUTDAV's comments & statements regarding (older, "1 & 3") Buffet trademarked motuhpieces.
best,
mw
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Author: Anji
Date: 2001-10-06 22:25
Semantics....
Perhaps the original seller meant that the item was as originally purchased.
Tutdav has mentioned that Buffet shipped some Ched blanks straight from the loading dock into cases.
In ANY case, most of these need some attention to be playable.
Must not be tax season, if this sort of thing occupies the mind.
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-10-06 23:34
Anji, remove your head your rear ! f you don't like the subject of a particular thread, don't post. If you have something to offer fine. You don't know anything about tax season and or me. Keep your thoughts to yourself. mw
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Author: Anji
Date: 2001-10-07 00:08
Lovely,
"In ANY case, most of these need some attention to be playable. "
You're quite right, speaking three languages, travelling 'round the world twice and
holding an advanced degree qualifies me to be considered as an idiot.
I defer to the greater wisdom of those that have gone before me.
So nice to see you demonstrating the attributes that have the World enamored with the legal profession.
And I thought my pads were thin-skinnned!
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-10-07 00:11
To restate the information at hand:
In the past, I have come to own "Buffet-instrument issued" mouthpieces marked as follows:
Buffet mouthpiece - "France" (to the left of Lower Table) & "C w/a Crown Symbol"
Buffet mouthpiece - "France" (to the left of Lower Table) & "C"
Evette & Schaeffer mouthpiece - "France" (to the left of lower table) & "C"
(FWIW - on the middle mouthpiece above, I have also found those with letters "A" & "B" ..... I presently own mouthpieces with these attributes)
It has long been hear by me (including discussiions with several noted individuals who have status as pedagogues) that the "France" and "C" mouthpieces were the REAL winners in the group, whether they said Buffet Crampon a Cie or Evette & Schaeffer.
Recently, Jack Kissinger reported (as I have also mentioned based upon the same subject conversations) that Dave Tuttle of Chicago had gone on record, stating that the Evette & Schaeffer "France" & "C" was shipped by Buffet in an UN-faced state.
In a conversation with the Seller of the present eBay auction for a "Buffet (Ched?)" I was told that Rick Sayre a noted specialist in the Chicago area had stated that a Buffet "France" & "C" was UN-faced, too.
My experience has been that the Buffet "C-Crown" were distinctly different as to playing characteristics from the OTHER 2. This has been confirmed by 2 people I would call GREAT experts (I haven't asked their permission to quote them & I won't) Each has told me, get me as many of those "C" mouthpieces as you can, but please KEEP those "C Crowns" they are not players!
There is no question that all of the mouthpieces originated from from the House of Chedeville (albeit & no doubt ... at differentg times).
It appears some were faced and some were NOT faced. BUT, I am not sure what Buffet's shipment or instrument policy was, nor the criteria or occurrence within the "population".
best,
mw
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-10-07 00:13
Anji, as i stated, take it somewhere else. AND, when you go .. GROW UP. Gain some maturity while you are at it. I don't like your attitude, nor youre comments about my work. SAVE IT.
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Author: -katherine
Date: 2001-10-07 01:15
I agree, frequenting this board often i've noticed most people are very respectful of other's opinions on subjects about clarinet that there are many different views on, even when they conflict with their own. certain people are CONSISTENTLY not respectful and that needs to change or they need to stop posting.
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Author: RonD
Date: 2001-10-07 01:48
Ditto, I find that anji seems to be very knowledgeable on the subject of woodwinds, but his brand of humor is more properly presented face to face as it would be with a good friend.
this type of language is not always understood by casual corespondence with strangers. I don't think that any disrespect was intended.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2001-10-07 05:49
mw,
FWIW, my recollection of Dave Tuttle's position was that Buffet REfaced the Chedevilles with the Buffet label but did not REface the Evette & Schaeffers. (I'm not shouting here, I just can't come up with any better way to emphasize letters.) I'm pretty sure the word he used was "refaced" rather than "faced." I have always taken this to mean that Chedeville applied a facing to the mouthpieces before shipping them to Buffet. Then Buffet modified the Chedeville facings on mouthpieces that carried the Buffet logo. I suppose the other interpretation is possible but, it seems to me, that a truly unfaced mouthpiece blank would be unplayable because there would be no tip opening.
Assuming Dave Tuttle is correct and has accurately described Buffet's practice, is it possible to find examples with a Buffet label that have not been touched at all? I wouldn't be surprised. In business, my experience is that few general policies are followed without exception. An unfaced (or unrefaced) blank might have fallen through the cracks occasionally and been shipped by mistake. It is also possible that this blank came from Chedeville rather than Buffet. It may have been left over when the contract ended or may have been a sample or may have been taken home by a worker. If Rick Sayre says the blank has not been faced, I would tend to accept this judgment because he is an expert in this area. However it is always possible that the seller misunderstood him and/or is not quoting him correctly, particularly if the seller doesn't know much about mouthpieces and terminology or is more interested in maximizing the selling price than providing full disclosure.
I often find with my beginning students that I can say something that has an absolutely unambiguous meaning to someone experienced in my field but they misinterpret my statement because they simply do not have a sufficient grasp of the technical language yet to understand subtle (and sometimes not-so-subtle) differences in meaning. That may or may not have happened here. It used to be that, if I saw a seller on eBay who seemed to be trying to give an honest ad but didn't know much about a clarinet s/he had, I would send him/her any additional information I thought might be useful. I don't do that anymore because of some bad experiences with sellers who blatently distorted or quoted me out of context to make the instrument look better than it was.
To me the existence of an un(re)faced example proves that not all Chedevilles with the Buffet logo were (re)faced. One lone example, however, does not prove that Buffet didn't (re)face most, or nearly all, or even all such mouthpieces they came in contact with (a significantly different assertion).
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: Dave
Date: 2001-10-08 00:16
Look at these fools fighting and quarreling, and over what? A crappy Buffet stock mouthpiece. I think you all need to grow up, especially you, the nameless"MW".
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Author: Dave
Date: 2001-10-08 00:21
One more thing, has anyone ever found a Buffet mouthpiece that plays at all? Even if the older ones are "Chedeville" blanks, Buffet dug the hell out of baffles, leaving them in poor playing condition.
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Author: jeff
Date: 2001-10-09 02:27
Ah
The buffet cheds. I have come across several with many different symbols/markings. The real question is simply what is the price and do you or do you know someone that will work on it. They have never played well as is (imho)but they always seem to have enough material to be reworked. So, if oyu can pick one up for a good price, and it has not been refaced a thousand times, why not give it a shot. You never know what you will find. Just as a random note i once tried out mouthpieces by one of the major custom makers and had it narrowed down to two and one was actually a student model at about a third of the price. NOw in the end the student piece did not work out but it did give the pro model a definate run for the money. simply stated try them out you never know what you will find and it may work for you and it may not.
take care
jeff
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