 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bob Rausch
Date: 2001-10-01 20:30
Over the years, I have bought and reconditioned some really nice clarinets. However, no matter how much cleaning I do, some keys just need to be replated. I do almost all my own clarinet work, but naturally I do not have access to a replating materials. Does anyone know of someone who will do clarinet key replating ? I don't need total restoration services, I just need to find a place where I can send keys to be replated.
Any ideas ?
Thanks
Bob
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Author: Peter
Date: 2001-10-01 20:45
I don't know if there is a site sponsor who does this type of work, but I do know of an excellent repair person who also re-plates keys. He has done silver and gold for me and does a nice job. He is now in the process of doing one of my clarinets in gold.
His name is Raymond Limm, and you can find him at the Sam Ash Music store in Miami Lakes, Florida. 5360 NW 167 Street. I don't know the zip code, but the telephone number is 305-628-3510, and I believe the extension is 235, if not, just dial 0 and ask for him by name.
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Author: Fred McKenzie
Date: 2001-10-01 20:49
Beware! I had my Bass Clarinet overhauled several years ago at a local music store. They had to send the keys out for plating, and one got lost. At least thats the story they told me when it took an extremely long time to finish the overhaul. I don't know if I got the original back, or one from a junked instrument.
I wonder if it would be difficult to set up your own plating operation using large bowls or casserole dishes, some chemicals and a D.C. power supply?
Fred
<A HREF="http://melbourneband.tripod.com/">MMB</A>
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Author: Peter
Date: 2001-10-01 21:54
Hey Fred:
This person I am talking about at Sam Ash in Miami Lakes, FL, does his own plating on the premisses and has done several instruments for me.
He is not only reputable, but one of the best repair people I have met. This guy I know personally and can recommend him as such.
No doubt about it!
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Author: Bart Hendrix
Date: 2001-10-01 22:03
I haven't tried them for replating keys, but I have had good success having small items (napkin rings, table ware, etc) replated by taking them to a jewelry store. I suppose that would be easiest if you were doing the overhaul yourself and could take the parts in stripped down.
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Author: jmcaulay
Date: 2001-10-01 22:48
Fred McKenzie asks:
"I wonder if it would be difficult to set up your own plating operation using large bowls or casserole dishes, some chemicals and a D.C. power supply?"
Difficult, no. Nearly impossible to meet all Federal regulations, yes.
Silver plating is really rather simple, but most silver compounds are poisonous. Hence, many of those chemicals you mention are considered toxic by the EPA. After use, they become "toxic waste." This, to be legal, drives you into licensing and operating your very own toxic waste storage facility (you have to keep the stuff somewhere until it leaves your premises), costly pick-up by licensed toxic waste handlers, record-keeping that is hard to believe, being subjected to random inspections with possible *substantial* fines for violations, etc.
Furthermore, most commercial platers do not want to have anything to do with small quantity jobs (such as a single clarinet's keywork). Combine these two facts and it becomes clear why finding a good plater that will do small jobs is just plain wonderful.
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Author: Peter
Date: 2001-10-01 23:20
Actually the jewelry store idea is probably excellent, if you can find a jeweler who will charge you a reasonable price for doing the work.
My experience with jewelers is that, unless you are a pretty regular client and therefore disposed to treating you well, everything they do is expensive.
I'd rather find a reputable repair person who can re-plate on the premisses.
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Author: jbutler
Date: 2001-10-01 23:22
Contact Anderson Silver Plating Company, 541 Industrial Parkway, Elkhart, Indiana 46515. 219-294-6447.
John
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-10-01 23:32
JB is correct, as usual. Anderson serves "the Trade" and does very high quality work. There are a number of other fine repair people, who do plating work. Larry Naylor & Steve Fowler come to mind, but there are many repair folks who do this. mw
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Author: Terry Horlick
Date: 2001-10-02 00:25
Why not just do it yourself? Casswell has home kits for plating most metals. Gold is one of the easy ones and silver isn't hard either.
The secret to good plating is in buffing and polishing it out perfectly before plating and then buffing it out well afterwards.
I just had two clarinets silver plated... when they start going thin I will think seriously about getting the home kit chemicals and repairing it as necessary.
You might do a search on Sneezy on plating as I know this has been discussed before.
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Author: Terry Horlick
Date: 2001-10-02 05:41
Here is a link to a compay than can help you with re-plating your keys. I have no connection with them.
<b><center><a href="http://www.caswellplating.com/frames.asp?bottom=/kits.htm">Casswell</a></center></b>
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2001-10-02 09:42
1. I have heard that silver plating can include traces of other metals (Rhodium, Palladium?) which render the plating much more tarnish resistant.
2. The home kits probably do a plating job which is many times thinner than commercial, i.e. decorative rather than able to stand handling.
3. Silver plating sometimes uses a base plating of copper - ever seen that red look when the silver wears off?
4. How is the old plating going to be prepared? Does it need to be removed first? How? Will careless buffing or over-time in chemical baths damage the parts?
5.......
There is more to this than meets the eye. Unless you know the answers to these and all the other questions I don't even know I suggest plating is left to trustworthy experts in the trade.
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2001-10-02 10:47
Unless you are interested in doing this as a science fair project I would leave it to professional platers who have the experience and professional gear to do it. There are very many handy and technically oriented people on the BB that in truth could probably do it themselves if they knew all the tricks and pit falls of the process (which includes pre-plating cleaning, etc. and post plating buffing, etc.) and were willing to invest in the equipment and chemical handling and storage headaches.
I played around with making fine silver particles and colloidal silver suspensions in my research a while back on preserving the plating on clarinets exposed to high concentrations of environmental pollutants. Some cities like Atlanta have 30-60 Code Orange - Code Red Pollution Days each summer - not healthy for lungs or clarinet plating. Anyway, the electrochemical process is simple but the practical and quality of the product requires some practice and hints from knowledgable plating persons. I never stop a project because of lack of finding out (chemistry) or experience of others in doing similar projects. I do "punt" when I find out that the process, the level of experience, or equipment necessary is just not worth the investment in time or money to do it myself - often this is a painful personal process!
The Doctor
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Author: Anji
Date: 2001-10-02 13:33
I investigated the Caswell stuff a few months back.
They sort of hedged when I asked about the 'Home-Brew' process.
Here are a coupla factors they mentioned as necessary to a plate layer more than a few nanometers thick;
1) High voltage. The 'Wall-warts' supplied have fairly small step up transformers included, and may not have the punch to set up a significant potential difference between the two poles.
2) Heavy metals and poisons. For obvious reasons concerning public health, the amount of Cyanide, Arsenic and other toxic solutions used in the process are kept considerably lower than permitted for industrial concerns.
3) The smell. This process can generate some really funky gas. (And you thought Super Bowl chili was bad!) The kit mentions a well-ventilated place.
This may not be the sort of thing to do over a kitchen table or in a basement.
Bottom line; wouldn't it be nice to do this at home? Sure.
For my money, I would tag and bag each instrument separately and go off to Anderson for the best proven results. Car customizers that specialize in trim work should be able to manage, as well.
Jewelers are where I buy presents for my wife, they charge more by the hour than my car mechanic!
anji
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Author: Terry Horlick
Date: 2001-10-02 14:37
Anji,
I have mentioned the car chrome (and other plating) guys before. Having firsthand experience with them on car parts I would point out that due to federal help they need to conserve on costs where ever they can... big time. They hire the cheapest labor they can to do the buffing. Usually Billy doing the buffing is there because he couldn't figure out how to work the lawnmower. The guy you are sending your parts to will have a 12-16 inch buff he uses to obliterate the embossed emblems on steel hub caps which he will try to use on your bridge key. The key will be thrown against the wall, bent and mangled. All the sharp edges will be worn away.
Then it will be hung from a wire and dipped in a plating tank which is about four feet wide, six feet long and four feet deep. If it falls off the wire, oh well! It will be down there with all the door handles and lug nuts... for eternity!
If you use a pro plater only use the one that pro instrument repair shops use. Call a good shop and ask for a referral.
Just IMHO
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Author: Bob Rausch
Date: 2001-10-02 14:50
Wow,
You guys have been a big Help ! Thank-you for taking the time to respond to my question. I think Anderson or the gentleman in Florida is going to be my solution.
Thanks
Bob
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Author: CURT
Date: 2001-10-03 01:18
I have the Caswell kit and use it often. Most of this thread is correct regarding thickness and what not. Surley Anderson is your best bet. But the Caswell Kit does work.
Whichever you choose, take a look at the Caswell side and read about the "Silver Smith" Silver Polish. This stuff is great! It will actually plate bare brass. No electricity, but it is chemical. I polish my silver with it and I know that it is putting on much more silver than it is taking off. I mean it really puts silver on you instrument.
www.MusicMedic.com
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2001-10-03 20:07
I've already stated my non-qualifications as a plater but do know something about the chemical depositing of silver in some of the applications that are non-electrolytic (requiring watts - high voltage). These do indeed deposit silver but not in a lattice structure that is stable or durable. Just you finger rubbing pressure - as in playing - will remove most, if not all, of this type of silver plating (electrochemical metal deposition). It may make you feel good to add silver back, but it is not a lasting application such as plating and tarnishes much more quickly than high grade silver or nickel plating You end up paying a lot of money for a restorative silver polish that is better spent on 3M strips, sacrificial metal (either silver impregnated cloth or a mossy nickel material), and keeping the case sealed when not playing (free!!!).
The Doctor
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2001-10-03 21:02
For info, I got the following from Mike at Anderson Plating regarding bass clarinet neck and bell re-plating:
"It is recommended that all plating be remove esp. if we are dealing with
nickel. Silver is marginal. We cannot guarantee anything if we are plating
over old finishes even if they are polished, unless we do the prep.
Stripping:
Bell & Neck: $6.25
Buffing:
Bell: $40.00
Neck: $28.50
[Plating:] If you handle the prep work (i.e. stripping/buffing):
Bell & Neck Pair -
Nickel: $8.50
Silver: $11.65
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Author: Peter
Date: 2001-10-04 03:29
David,
Excellent information!
Those charges would not be nearly enough money to prompt me to do it myself, under any circumstamces!
The keys are probably somewhat more, but still, judging by what I've been previously charged by Raymond Limm, here in Florida, and what you just published in the above commo, I think you'd have to be really bored or something to do it yourself.
I am a great believer in the reputable professional.
You do it, you screw it up, you pay dearly to have it fixed.
A reputable professinal does it, they screw it up, they fix it.
End of story!
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2001-10-04 16:34
Another quote from Anderson Plating, this one for replating of a complete set of bass clarinet keys, including all prep work:
Nickel: $125.00
Silver: $130.00
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Author: Bob Rausch
Date: 2001-10-04 20:01
Yes Yes Yes !!! Anderson Plating it is !
I just saw a friend's Bb clarinet done in Silver from Anderson it only cost her 95.00 dollars and it looks Fantastic. The best part is she only had to send them the keys and did not have to send them the entire clarinet. Since I can do the rest of the overhaul work myself, I just found the solution to my problem. Yes, I looked at Casswell, but I hesitate because it doesn't look like the plating is meant for wear and tear.
Another question is Nickel or Silver better for durability ?
Thanks
Bob
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2001-10-05 10:53
What is durability? How long is a piece of string.
Nickel is far more resistant to abrasion (wear).
It resists tarnish better unless in some 'allergic' environments such as polyurethane fumes, in which it can tarnish overnight.
However when it does tarnish it can go rough and off-white - a bad look and feel - and any tarnish is very difficult to remove.
Nickel is far more brittle. If a key is bent then nickel plating is likely to crack or even peel.
Nickel is less popular for pro instruments partly because it is considerably more slippery, especially if the player has a moist skin.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2001-11-22 19:53
A brass key on a bass clarinet was just replated by me using a silver plating solution I've had for years, a 12-volt battery charger with a 50-ohm resistor, and an electrode made from brass with a clarinet pad felt epoxyied to it. This spot plating is thin but it looks great and the wear on this key is minimal. It had been made from a sax key by someone else.
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