 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: LeftBehindfreak
Date: 2001-10-03 22:42
I'm not that new a player, but I still haven't figured this out for myself. I'd like to know which Bb Clarinet reeds are the best, as in which last longest and which can give the best sound. I'd also like to know whether Rico brand is any good, because that's what I've been using.
I switched to Vandoren brand upon entering high school, because I needed a new reed and that was the only brand being sold. Can anyone tell me how these two brands fare in the world of clarinet reeds? Thank you.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dee
Date: 2001-10-03 22:53
There is no one best reed for all mouthpieces and all players. The plain basic Rico reeds are generally considered to be poor although there are some people who prefer them. Rico makes several other lines, such as the Rico Royal, Mitchell Lurie, Mitchell Lurie Premium, and I believe also the Grand Concert, that are much better than plain Ricos. Other reeds that find favor among players are Vandoren, Oliveri, Glotin, La Voz, Superial, and others.
Stay away from the gimmick Flavoreeds. My daughter could tell they were terrible even when she was only 10.
My personal choices are regular Vandoren and Mitchell Lurie (both regular and premium).
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Aussie Nick
Date: 2001-10-04 02:01
Don't forget Daniels. They have quite a good reputation especially for consistancy, but like Mitchell Lurie's, if you don't buy quite hard Daniels, they go soft quicker than some other brands. I am currently finding success with using a combination of Daniels 4's, Vandoren blue box 3 1/2's and Rick Grand Concert regulars 3 1/2.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Peter
Date: 2001-10-04 03:06
While I have never used Mitchell Lurie Reeds (are they not also made by Rico?)
I never used a Rico reed that satisfied my requirements for sound, but used one that made me bleed.
I almost like the Rico Grand Concert, but I have never found a Rico reed with enough "heart." The worse ones I found were the La Voz (also a Rico brand.) I played one of those for 15 minutes one day and my lower lip was bleedingwhere it came in contact with the reed!
I use Vandoren reeds regularly, and prefer them. They are excellent, but if you are very picky, they can be very inconsistent.
The answer, my friend, is blowing in the wind...
There are as many answers to any reed question as there are reed and mouthpiece combination preferences, and there are at least a dozen of those for every woodwinds player who ever lived.
Keep trying them out, keep reaching your own conclusions. Do that every new day that you rise up and live to play a woodwind instrument, and when you are old and grey, and have been playing for 60 years, you probably still won't have a concrete answer to your reed questions!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Stephen Froehlich
Date: 2001-10-04 04:00
OK, to set the stage a little better - most of the reeds you find come from one of two companies.
<b>Rico:</b>
Rico
Rico Royal
Rico Grand Concert
La Voz
Hemke (Sax only, but I like them on Bass)
Mitchel Lurie
BG France
<b>Vandoren:</b>
Vandoren
V12 (Bb only)
German White Master (Bb only)
German Black Master (Bb only)
There are some others, like Zonda, but these two have a vast majority of the market share. Your local music store has a very tough time keeping a good, diverse stock of reeds for all of the woodwinds - this is even true in fairly large cities.
In my opinion, the only reason to buy reeds at your local music store is to use visual inspection to weed out the bad ones. This is the only way to justify their much higher prices. Boxed reeds are a great thing to mail order in relatively large batches (3 boxes or so).
By the way, what kind of business plan does Rico have that they keep so many different lines of reeds going. Each of these reeds has their own characteristics and requires a different manufacturing line. Where can they share costs, cane supply? Do the Ricos get the bad cane, etc.?
Vandoren's Bb line makes more sense - it has a few, well defined variations. I wish I could get V12's for Bass, though. I'll have to try the Rico Grand Concert Select, though.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Stephen Froehlich
Date: 2001-10-04 04:06
I see also that Rico is part of the Boosey and Hawkes (Buffet) grand musical empire. God help us if they are ever allowed to merge with Selmer.
By the way, as the top of the line for each company, many compare the V12 to the Rico Grand Concert for Bb. The base Vandoren isn't a "beginner" reed like the Rico or LaVoz, though, its a much higher quality proposition. These two can definitely "Make the Cut". The rest is up for debate. For help in maximizing the number that do make the cut - get Larry Guy's reed book.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Sandra Franklin Habekost
Date: 2001-10-04 14:24
I recommend the Vandoren Black Masters. Rico reeds are good for beginners because they are inexpensive, but they are too non-precision made for more advanced players. I don't personally care for V-12's because the tip is too thin, in my opinion, although the heel is thick. I find the Blackmasters to be the most consistent. I cannot be bothered with reed cutters/clippers. My best results come from purchasing a harder reed and scraping to the desired strength with a bassoon or an oboe knife. Different set-ups (mouthpiece/ligature) require different reed strengths and cuts, don't forget. You can learn alot by asking other clarinetists what set-ups they use. I use generally a B45 Vandoren and Moree 2.5 (equivalent to Vandoren Blackmaster 3.5 or 4) and scrape the reeds to the desired strength. Remember not to scrape too much off your reed's tip and heart (center). One of my former teachers uses a Gigliotti P34, regular Rovner ligature and VanDoren BlackMaster 3-3.5. I also seal my reeds so that they don't get "waterlogged" and have a longer playing life. You could also try Marca Reeds. They are similar to the Vandoren Blackmasters. I usually find 1-2 playable reeds out of a box of 10. Try to keep several reeds in use at once. Good luck!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Peter
Date: 2001-10-04 15:15
Mark,
An interesting note from you on B&H solvency.
It would not surprise me if a major part of the problem was in their lack of attention to good customer service practices.
Mr. Francois Kloc, Buffet-Crampon woodwinds manager, is a very good, helpful person to deal with and he makes himself reasonably available, but that's where it ends!
When I had the problem with a cut and bleeding lip from a LaVoz reed, Rico was quick to respond, but I can't judge them on that one incident, as it entailed an "injury" and people are usually quicker to respond under those circumstances.
I had a problem with a Hofner guitar belonging to one of my sons, which was diagnosed to have a weak frame by two reputable repair technicians and, for all practical purposes, the guitar manager for B&H conveyed the message that it was tough luck and what did I want him to do about it!
Recently there was someone who wrote in the BB that he tried to buy music from B&H and, not only did B&H not send him the music, but they wouldn't even answer his inquiries as to why they did not send it.
I have had similar problems accessing people and/or departments other then M. Kloc at B&H.
And as far as Rico is concerned, doesn't Leblanc also distribute Rico products?
Maybe Leblanc will "inherit" Rico. Hopefully not!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2001-10-04 15:48
I believe Leblanc markets Marca reeds (which I happen to like). Other good reeds not mentioned so far include Glotin and Rigoutat (I don't think these are distributed by any of the 'big names' mentioned above, but they're readily available in the states anyway), and Olivieri (now owned by Phil Muncy of Muncy Winds).
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jmcaulay
Date: 2001-10-04 17:44
Stephen Froehlich speaks of Rico branded reeds rather disparagingly: "Do the Ricos get the bad cane, etc.?" and then mentions that "...Rico is part of the Boosey and Hawkes (Buffet) grand musical empire. God help us if they are ever allowed to merge with Selmer."
There is also comment from Peter, who advises: "I never used a Rico reed that satisfied my requirements for sound, but used one that made me bleed" and also says: "Maybe Leblanc will 'inherit' Rico. Hopefully not!"
So there seems to be consensus here that reeds labeled "Rico" are sub-mediocre, along with differing hopes that the company does not wind up in the hands of Selmer or Leblanc. Does this mean you fellows think they then would become even worse?
For what it's worth (not much), I usually play on Selmer's old "Roy J. Maier" reeds, not made for many years.
Regards,
John
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Peter
Date: 2001-10-04 19:30
No, I didn't mean they should become worse by being inherited by Leblanc, just that I happen to like Leblanc and would probably hate to see them market a product that I, on a personal level, consider sub-standard.
I have to admit that Rico sell a heck of an awful lot of reeds. However, not that I've known that many or taken a poll, but I can't think of a single music teacher or school band director I have ever known of who actually recommended Rico reeds to his/her students.
What really gets me is the music student parents who will buy a box of Rico reeds for two dollars less than Vandorens, for instance, even though someone is actually standing there telling them that the other reeds are so much better quality.
Are the $2.00 to $4.00, every month or so, that important?
I mean, Daniel is in his second year of clarinet. He uses a #3 Vandoren Traditional reed with a Vandoren B46 mouthpiece for the most-part (his choice.) He was taught to care for his reeds, and he requires a box of 10 reeds about every three to five months.
That is pretty darn cost effective, considering he has two hour-long clarinet classes a day plus practice, plus six hours a week of marching band!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Peter
Date: 2001-10-04 19:46
McCaulay,
I think your statement can be worth a lot, and I have a number of curious questions to prove it! You said:
"For what it's worth (not much), I usually play on Selmer's old "Roy J. Maier" reeds, not made for many years."
1. How many years ago did Selmer stop making these reeds?
2. How large a supply of them did you have?
3. Have you been using them exclusively, or occassionally, in between using
other reed brands?
4. How long have you been using the same used reeds?
5. What general condition are they in today?
6. If you use them regularly, after "years," how do you keep them still usable?
7. Which reeds are you going to switch over to when they are gone?
Hopefully some of us, including me, can learn something from you here.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Frank O'Brien
Date: 2001-10-04 22:35
I generally play Regal Queen or Vandorens, but I have also found that Fibercells work very well. I play a wide open jazz mouthpiece [Otto Link 6* and 7*].
Any comments on the synthetic reed?
Frank
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Peter
Date: 2001-10-04 23:58
I have been wanting to try out one or more synthetic reeds, but choices are difficult. From what I read here, Fibracell and Legere seem to be the prefered ones.
Can someone who has tried them both give me an idea of how the strengths run, for instance, as compared to Vandorens?
How about price-wise, what should one expect to pay for one or the other?
Do they have to be ordered? Do they have local retailers where a buyer can see these reeds?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark M
Date: 2001-10-05 02:47
As I said in the "fibracell" post several down from here, I've convinced my local music store to let me try the synthetic reeds as being non porous, they can be cleaned like a mouthpiece. So you can go in and grab a handful and disappear into a practice room and choose which ones you want to buy. I do this with fibracell as I find they are not real consistent. I find that a medium is about the same as a VD #3. The Legeres I have tried tended to be somewhat non responsive. I've only tried one each of two different strengths. I should try more to see what the consistency is.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Hiroshi
Date: 2001-10-05 03:15
Alexander Classic.
They are made of genuine French Var region cane.
Their bottom surface is diamond cut and realy flat. Almost no reed adjustment necessary.
They are made after MORRE reed that CSO clarinet players adored.
They last very longer.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jmcaulay
Date: 2001-10-05 05:50
Peter wrote,
and I here respond:
------------------------
McCaulay, [It's McAulay, by the way. But that's okay.]
I think your statement can be worth a lot, and I have a number of curious questions to prove it! You said:
"For what it's worth (not much), I usually play on Selmer's old "Roy J. Maier" reeds, not made for many years."
Peter, I wasn't kidding. It really isn't worth a lot, as you will see. I played very little for a number of years, resuming since I retired a couple of years ago. So my use of the Roy J. Maier "Signature" reeds had a quite lengthy interruption. I'm afraid many of your questions are based on a misapprehension, but here goes anyway:
1. How many years ago did Selmer stop making these reeds?
Beats me. All I know is that they are no longer available. And I'm not at all certain that Selmer *made* them, although I understand that Selmer *distributed* them.
2. How large a supply of them did you have?
I bought three boxes (25 per) on eBay from a going-out-of-business music store less than a year ago. I used to really like the brand, and I got them for small bucks. A rare bargain. And they do play well for me, just as i remembered them.
3. Have you been using them exclusively, or occassionally, in between using
other reed brands?
Other than those, I also have a few NOS Brilhart reeds (about six) and a new box of Vandoren. When I used to play a lot, these three were sort of my favorite brands.
4. How long have you been using the same used reeds?
Surely, this sin't the kind of answer you expected, but I believe a reed lasts me about 60 playing hours or so maximum, as best I can figure. After I play it until it seems "tired," I rinse it with clear water, pat it rather dry, then put it into a Vandoren reed case. Maybe a couple of months later, it seems to be better than when put away. I cannot explain that, but that's the way it is.
5. What general condition are they in today?
Obviously, most of them are quite new. And here's a plug for old reeds in general: Personally, I think older reeds (chronologically, not in terms of time in use) may well be generically better. For quite a long time we've seen reports about how the cane supply is going down the drain because of overcutting, undercuring, all that sort of rot. These reeds I happen to prefer were manufactured before a lot of this unfortunate stuff began. I do suspect they may actually be better than current production reeds, on average, just because of this. And they've had lots of years to "stabilize." Of course, maybe that's crazy, but it doesn't seem all that unreasonable.
6. If you use them regularly, after "years," how do you keep them still usable?
Again, I don't use them regularly after "years." At least, I haven't done it yet.
7. Which reeds are you going to switch over to when they are gone?
Probably Vandoren, since I do use them occasionally anyway. However, recent postings on the Phorum have mentioned a degradation in characteristics of Vandoren reeds, and that disturbs me. I do plan to check out some other brands. While I see spotty reports that one brand or another is wonderful, I believe there is a broad consensus that Mitchell Lurie reeds are quite good. This is one brand I will try.
Hopefully some of us, including me, can learn something from you here.
Not much, I fear, but there it is.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jmcaulay
Date: 2001-10-05 06:02
Peter wrote, in part:
> No, I didn't mean they should become worse by being inherited by Leblanc, just that I happen >to like Leblanc and would probably hate to see them market a product that I, on a personal >level, consider sub-standard.
Sorry I misunderstood the intent of your comment, Peter.
Seems rather curious...many clarinet players have at one time or other played a reed labeled "Rico," yet I know no one who has played them for more than maybe three or four years -- and many for no more than three or four reeds.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Peter
Date: 2001-10-05 06:46
Thanks John,
Enjoyed your answers. But I think I'll stick with your first name, it's easier.
I had actually gotten the impression that maybe you had been one of those people who bought half a car-load of boxes thirty year ago, as the supply was dwindling, and were still using them.
Of course, I'm making that up, but I have known people who like something (like a particular reed) and will buy enough of the current production to last for very long periods of time!
Enjoy.
Peter
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Hiroshi
Date: 2001-10-05 07:25
Peter wrote:Where are these reeds available from?
For example. International Musical Suppliers.
http://www.intlmusicalsuppliers.com/
Alexander's owner is a pro Saxophonist. He lives in Japan.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jmcaulay
Date: 2001-10-05 17:29
Mark Charette wroye:
"The stories about "bad cane" were rampant in the 1920's too "
Mark, I've also heard that stories about bad liquor were going around the US back then....
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Sandra Franklin Habekost
Date: 2001-10-05 21:57
About Glotin reeds: unless they've changed their packaging, I won't buy them again. The reeds were stuffed into the box with the tips wedged into a foam piece which warped the tips. I used Olivieri's until I found other, better quality reeds that I mentioned before.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mike Milo
Date: 2001-10-06 21:36
One answer: Vandoren V-12!!!!!!!!!!
I ordered a box of 3.5 regular and a box of 3.5 V12 style... I tried the V12, and never did get around to opening the regular box. It's still sitting in my room, neglected in favor of the superior v12. Most of the reeds lasted more than a month each, while maintaining a BEAUTIFUL, rich, full-bodied sound. On a plastic, beginner's clarinet with a plastic mouthpiece, they STILL provided a wonderful sound. The v12s are a little harder, with a thicker cane base and slightly wider bottom. They are a little harder to play if you don't have breath support, but since I'm full of hot air.... ^_^
Although they're listed VERY expensive (50 bucks for a box of 10), don't get gyped and pay THAT much; the ww and bw has 'em for 25 bucks, plus shipping. Some reeds will have an airy sound, but don't ditch 'em! Save these for when you want to play jazz, and you'll instantly have that classic Benny-Goodman sound in the clarion register. A superb reed if you ask me...
-Mike Milo
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2001-10-06 22:46
Mike Milo wrote:
>
>
> Although they're listed VERY expensive (50 bucks for a box of
> 10), don't get gyped and pay THAT much; the ww and bw has 'em
> for 25 bucks, plus shipping. > -Mike Milo
I think they're cheaper than that! Ken at http://www.discountreed.com (a sneezy sponsor) has 'em listed at 17.45.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2001-10-06 23:02
Woodwind and Brasswind sell Vandoren V-12 clarinet reeds for $17.25, but the price drops to $16.39 (5% discount) on orders of 10 or more boxes...
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mike Milo
Date: 2001-10-07 01:47
Anyone heard if Gigliotti makes reeds? I know their mouthpieces and ligatures are nice, but I've never heard of any reeds they might produce...
-Mike Milo
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: DLE
Date: 2001-10-08 12:00
Vandoren, Rico Royal (For the nice sound), Daniels (Consistent)... loads of others.
BUT, Forget about LEGERE - you can't seem to get them in my country, and ordering the off the net isn't my style.
DLE.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
