 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Peter
Date: 2001-10-01 17:20
Who can tell me what about an "Edfred's American" silver-plate over brass clarinet?
I know some things about it (estimated date of manufacture and who may have built it,) but am somewhat unsure of my information and I'm curious as to who may know something more I can learn.
The SN is 5098.
Peter
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-10-01 17:24
Are you sure it is silver plate rather than nickel plate? The latter was much more common.
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Author: Peter
Date: 2001-10-01 17:28
Yes, it is silverplate, as it has a few minor wear spots which look the same way as silver plate actually wears and no splits anywhere as nickel or chrome.
An instrument technician friend of mine who recently overhauled it also agrees it is silver.
Of course, this is to the best of my knowledge (and/or his!).
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Author: Peter
Date: 2001-10-01 17:29
I forgot to add that it tarnishes like silver and cleans with a silver polishing cloth.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-10-01 18:39
Nickel also tarnishes it just takes longer. What color is the tarnish? Generally silver tarnishes in shades of gray to black. Nickel usually tarnishes in shades of brown. Nickel plating doesn't necessarily split when it wears either.
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Author: Peter
Date: 2001-10-01 18:56
This tarnishes the same as my silver Optimum ligatures, which is as you describe, in shades of grey to black.
I have not noticed any brown on it whatsoever since I've had it, which is quite a while.
One curious question, though: Can nickel plating be cleaned with a silver polishing cloth with the same results as if it were silver? Because if so, I have nickel plated items I would clean with a silver polishing cloth in the future!
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-10-01 19:47
Nickel tarnish is harder to remove. I've never tried to remove it myself but when I had one of my instruments completely overhauled, they simply buffed the keys to get rid of the tarnish.
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Author: Peter
Date: 2001-10-01 20:34
Oh, yes, I've had some experiences with what I've heard call "German silver,"
which, if I'm not mistaken is some sort of nickel alloy with a high silver content, and it is nearly impossible to clean. Additionally, if the plate is not well laid on it will crack and chip off, leaving the bare, base metal looking pretty ugly.
Well, with the Edfred's the tarnish comes off readily with a silver polishing cloth, so from the color of the tarnish, the type of wear and how it cleans well with a silver polishing cloth, I would venture to say it was silver plate.
Any insights on the instrument?
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2001-10-01 22:15
There's no silver at all in "German Silver". Do a search on the BBoard for further info.
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Author: Peter
Date: 2001-10-01 23:33
Hey Mark:
Good show, very enlightning about the German silver.
Know anything about the clarinet?
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Author: Peter
Date: 2001-10-02 00:48
Mark,
Don't go sensitive on me, there was no attitude involved. Where you directed me I read a bunch of stuff about German silver that I didn't previously know. I was grateful for the tip, not handing you an attitude.
The original question was:
"Who can tell me what about an "Edfred's American" silver-plate over brass clarinet?
I know some things about it (estimated date of manufacture and who may have built it,) but am somewhat unsure of my information and I'm curious as to who may know something more I can learn.
The SN is 5098."
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2001-10-02 05:23
Sorry - I misread the second part of what you wrote.
The clarinet isn't listed in The New Langwill Index.
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Author: Peter
Date: 2001-10-02 16:46
What I "know" about it is this:
It was made by Conn in 1901. The serial number for those instruments ended in 5099 that year and began on 5100 in 1902, making mine the next to the last instrument manufactured in 1901.
My information comes from two antique dealers I know and some follow-up research on my own, but I have yet to actually pin down the answers to someone who can say "Yes, I have specific knowledge of these instruments," ect...
So whenever I think of it, I keep trying to find some such person who can further enlighten me.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-10-02 16:54
How do you know it was made by Conn? Antique dealers information on musical instruments has a very high error rate. Many of them assume that any American musical instrument from this period was made by Conn. With the exception of the Pan American line for certain time periods, I believe that Conn always put the Conn name on their products. Although perhaps they did put out stencil horns but it's often difficult to prove who made what stencils.
You might try contacting the "Shrine to Music" museum. One of their curators has made a study of the Conn company and it's history. You can find their website by simply doing a search. Contact info for the expert on Conn is on that web site.
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Author: Peter
Date: 2001-10-02 21:22
Dee,
That is one of the reasons that the word "know" is between quotation marks in my last commo to the BB. I have talked to several people at UMI, at length, about this instrument, and everyone agrees it is more than a possibility, but not quite a probability that this is so, according to the stencil name, description and serial number.
But I do fully recognize that if it is of Conn manufacture, it was probably built by their Pan American line.
However, as I said, I have not been able to actually find someone who can, with certainty, identify the instrument, so, I haven't settled for my present "knowledge" (again, between quotation marks) of the instrument.
That was a good idea, I think I will contact the Shrine to Music museum and ask what they know of it.
I like things in black and white, and grey areas drive me to persevere. I know I won't rest it until I know for sure. I've had it for several years and periodically I make another all out effort to find out about it. This is just my latest attempt!
Thank you all for your input, but if you come up with anything else in your travels, I'd still like to know.
Peter
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Author: Rex
Date: 2003-10-12 12:54
Hello Peter
I have a Edfred's clarinet sn# E3105. It needs some cleaning and TLC, my question is it an instrument my granddaughter could use, in school band?
Thank you
Rex
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-10-12 19:33
Peter - Your desire for "specific" info re: a "turn of the century" metal clarinet [many were being made then] is commendable, but in my humble experience is VERY hard to come by. Our BBoard expert on metals is Jim Lande, he did put an exhaustive listing of metal cls in our archives some time ago, if you can't locate it, ask GBK for help. As Dee pointed out [from much experience], you might find that the {Shrine} Natl. Music Museum at U of South Dakota, might be able to help. I've had a few old metals, most seemed to be made of steel, nickel plated, keys likely of nickel silver, an alloy of Ni/Cu/Zn, no Ag! To answer Rex' question, I doubt a now-a-days school band director would accept a metal clar, and antagonistic students might make fun!! Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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