 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: James
Date: 2001-09-20 04:12
I have been talking to a lot of people about this subject. I do actually all the time because it keeps coming up I thought i would post it. I play on Leblanc because personally i feel they are so much better in tune and there is a better ability to project than on buffets. I played on buffets for a while than i decided to switch because of the benifits. Do people just stay on Buffet because its whats been tradition for longer than the opus and because its whats in most recording and teachers use? I know im just rambling but i don't see why more people are playing on leblanc because they are the best.
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Author: Carmen Izzo
Date: 2001-09-20 04:23
Good Question James. Perhaps the Clarinet community will get ill tempered about this because many of them have a fat bias for buffet. Perhaps you should enlighten us on some of these benefits so the sneezy commmunity does not go A-WAL on your butt. They have a habit of blantantly attacking people on their clarinetistic views.
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Author: James
Date: 2001-09-20 04:33
After play testing many Buffet, Leblanc, Selmer, and Rossi clarinets, I have to say that I prefer Buffet. True, the Leblanc may play better in tune, but the sound cannot compare to the Buffet. Bfts have so much more center and coloring; the Leblanc just sounds like a dull colorless thud. I think if Buffet tried to pick up on some of Leblanc's tuning techniques we'd have a winner. I highly doubt that Leblanc will ever become "standard".
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Author: Jim
Date: 2001-09-20 04:43
Some people always drove Chevys... Others always drove Fords! I guess thats Toyotas and Hondas now.
As a carpenter I find there are those who like Makita, and those who like DeWalt.
I'm a boater, and there are Bayliner people and Sea Ray people.
(OK I have a Bayliner, Makita tools and a Chevy.)
I had a prof in college who said the best textbook is the one that the teacher believes is the best. A lot of truth in that.
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2001-09-20 05:17
Finding a really good specimen of any brand is probably more important than deciding what the best brand is. I play Leblanc but have played Selmers and Buffets that I would be very happy with. James above says the Leblancs have a "dull colorless" sound. I wonder if he's tried the top of the line Opuses and Concertos.
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Author: Ken
Date: 2001-09-20 11:08
Opinions are like Buffets, everybody's got one.
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Author: Mark Pinner
Date: 2001-09-20 12:53
Dont use either. There are plenty of good sounding horns out there. Selmer (Paris) were the pick fo many years before either Buffet or Leblanc try a 10g for raw sound! I prefer the Oehler system and find the East German or Austrian horns have the biggest sound!
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Author: Anji
Date: 2001-09-20 13:02
"If it ain't inya, ya can't blow it out."
Who can say which instrument is used from 3 meters away?
From 10m? 100?
How many of the pros use a stock instrument - from any maker?
My favorite player is listed as a Buffet artist, and he travels with one for Photos but he plays on an old Hard-rubber Prueffer! Don't get me started on his 'stock' mpc.
$50 dollar garage sale finds should all sound so good.
The horn can limit some things, but it will never draw music OUT of you.
anji
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Author: Ed
Date: 2001-09-20 14:04
It is all personal preference as people have said. It is very hard to say xxxx is the best mouthpiece, horn, etc, It all depends on what you like and what you are looking for. I have sometimes tried things that others tell me are the end all and say ho hum.
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2001-09-20 15:01
Buffet, Leblanc, Selmer and Yamaha to only name the big 4 all manufacture fine instruments.
Now the reason why I play buffet? I had many more at hand to try, and I had an amazing deal on one of the first greenline.
The other reason? I have been playing Buffet for ever have tried many others and none of them feel the same. I am used to the response of the RC, its intonation and sound. I like the leblancs a lot and loved some of the selmer I tried. I am "ethically" not to crazy about yamahas' as they just copy buffet but their instruments are very fine ones.
Then we can start a real argument also about chadash clarinets, rossi's or other fine hand made horns.
To me it's about getting what you want. I am pleased with the sound I have with an buffet and doubt having a leblanc or any other respectable clarinet will make much of a difference. I like the feel of the buffet my fingers just place themselves naturally on it and the weight is just right.
But honestly, none of my reasons are related to quality and the reason why leblancs, selmers and yamahas are not more popular is due to history and marketing, not quality.
-S
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Author: HAT
Date: 2001-09-20 15:38
>>>But honestly, none of my reasons are related to quality and the reason why leblancs, selmers and yamahas are not more popular is due to history and marketing, not quality.<<<
May I suggest another reason? All of those brands are more expensive than an R-13.
It should be fairly obvious to anyone who has listened to a lot of clarinet playing that it is perfectly possible to play fantastically well on a Buffet R-13 clarinet. So there should be a very good reason to spend up to twice as much (and more) on another brand.
For the person who talked about the Leblanc intonation, let me repeat: no clarinets play in tune. Some clarinets play less out of tune than others.
I have heard fantastically in tune playing on Buffet, Yamaha and (recent model) LeBlanc and Selmer clarinets. Believe me, I have also heard fantastically OUT OF TUNE playing on all as well.
Also remember, just because Buffet hasn't changed the model designation R-13 in almost 50 years doesn't mean the clarinets haven't changed. They have. And for the better. What hasn't changed much is the price.
To sum it up, if you play out of tune badly, changing from Buffet to anything else is not going to help. Clarinets don't play in tune, clarinet players do.
David Hattner, NYC
www.northbranchrecords.com
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-09-20 16:16
HAT wrote:
>
> ... May I suggest another reason? All of those brands are more
> expensive than an R-13.
>
Not necessarily so. For example, the Leblanc that is actually the direct competitor to the R-13 is the Infinite *NOT* the Opus. The price of the Infinite is very close to that of the R-13. On any given day and varying among dealers, the Infinite may be slightly lower or the R-13 may be slightly lower.
Many people make the mistake of price comparing the R-13 to the Opus. This simply isn't valid. The R-13 is a "standard" pro horn while the Opus is a "premium" pro-horn. While I doubt that the premium horns sound or tune any better than standard horns, a higher price is charged for the additional keys and the additional prestige of premium horn.
In price comparisons, you need to look at comparable horns. I don't know why but Leblanc is putting its advertising efforts into its premium horns and is pretty much neglecting advertising for its standard pro horns. The result is that we consumers end up making invalid comparisons. Perhaps Selmer is doing the same thing, I don't know as I don't pay any attention to them.
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-09-20 16:52
Ahhh .... I should have known .... it's a LEBLANC (Psychiatric) ATTACK ! : )
I think we ought to schedule these monthly at a given date & time!
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-09-20 16:58
personal preference and experience will tell you what you want to play. what's in your pocketbook? that also will tell you.
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2001-09-20 17:54
Thank goodness I can't afford any professional-level B, L, S, or Y clarinet........makes my life easier, I don't have these tough decisions to make. I'm happy as a clam in my little padded room with my restored ex-eBay $90 winner. And, as Hat alludes, I can play just as out-of-tune on my no-name special as I could on an R-13, or Infinite, or what-have-you. Personally, I'd direct the search for the Holy Clarinet Grail more in the area of mouthpieces --- a great mouthpiece will make a far bigger difference, for far less money, than the more subtle differences between various brands and models of upper-crust clarinets.
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Author: Beacea
Date: 2001-09-20 18:22
I came in cold with no bias to what I wanted. After some research, I was HOT for the Signature based on what other people thought about it. I spent close to 1/2 a year trying out all kinds of instruments. When traveling on business, I would stop at music stores and try horns out.
I end up with a Buffet Greenline R13, hands down. In order of pref:
1) Buffet R13 (Greenline)
2) Singature (price I could not justify, the R13 was better IMHO anyway).
3) Lablancs - The worst - every model I tried, in all categories of judging.
If I was a different person with different skills and likes - I may have chosen the Lablancs.
Different strokes for different folks.
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Author: Kai
Date: 2001-09-20 18:38
It's 2:04 am over here and I am not quite 'there' in my thinking but I would like to offer $0.02 woth of unorganized thoughts:
I have always taken people's words with a table-spoon of salt on their opinions of brands that they have tried, especially those belonging to brands not used by them. No offense directed to anyone but I think the art of 'trying' an instrument is often under-estimated. To one who has played on a Buffet (or any other brands) for the last 20 years, you wouldn't expect Leblanc to play like a Bufet and certainly you shouldn't expect to play on a Leblanc as if you were playing a Buffet right? Oh dear, do I make sense?
The thing is, it's very understandable to compare to what you have been using all along when trying another brand and often, it's the only 'stable' enough factor that can help us form reasonable judgements. ? In a way, are we able to play Leblanc in a way that will make it sound good? Or do we still insist in playing it like a Buffet. I know of many who have made changes over their preferred brands because they have learnt how those new instruments work and they have learnt (often over some time) to utilize them and make it work. Only then, can we make a personal conviction to which brand to committ and call it 'my choice'.
So perhaps, what I am trying to say is that, next time, when somebody tries another brand (X) and it disappoints him in certain aspects, especially that of the tone, it is more so Not because the brand X isn't as good in the aspect of tone as compared to your usual brand but because people use X for a different sound. Given enough understanding, appreciation of that sound and time, you will see why different people from all over the world appreciates different brands.
World class players using certain brands to me show that the instruments they use have to be good enough. But does it give you what you want?
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2001-09-20 21:14
Very good points from Kai.
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Author: Ken
Date: 2001-09-21 02:47
Brenda speaks the truth, you can slice and dice it a million ways but breadth of experience, knowledge and skill level dictates the best selection of a horn...unless of course, your under contract to promote them.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2001-09-21 20:16
A reason to play a popular model is that it is easier to play unisons in tune with players having the same instrument. The section also sounds generally better if all can use the same type of instrument. I think this applies to most woodwinds.
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Author: Peter
Date: 2001-09-21 23:08
I've thought about this off and on for years, and what follows has to be nothing short of sheer sacrilege!!
I own several clarinets, most different makes and models.
I like them all, at different times, sometimes depending on my mood, sometimes on the type of music I am playing.
For some reason I prefer Selmers for jazz. The Leblancs and Buffets for all other music. I couldn't tell you why. It's has to do with how they feel and I could not tell you that one brand has been better or worse for me, judging from my experience.
My son Daniel has four clarinets of his own. Two of them are grenadilla wood student horns, one is a Noblet, one is a Sterling.
We tried a bunch of them before he settled on the Noblet and I have to say that it sounds good, if short of perfect.
I don't know who made the Sterling. It is likely a cheap, perhaps stencil instrument and was something we "found." But it also sounds great, and his music professor, a PhD in Woodwinds Performance (I belive that is how it is stated) also likes the sound of it.
And as Anji well put it, I can't tell the difference from 10 meters away, much less 100.
Unless you are going to audition for a band or orchestra where there may be some (ego related) prejudices involved, play what is comfortable to you and to heck with the rest!
And anyway, the ego related prejudices I am talking about can go pro or con any make or brand, at any time, without prior notice. The snootier the group, the more of it you'll encounter.
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Author: Sneakers
Date: 2001-09-21 23:53
I have a few things to say. I play on a set of Selmer 10Gs and am very pleased with the sound and response I get from them. I have often been treated by Buffet players as if I were playing on an inferior instrument. I have also owned R-13s and do not notice a significant difference between them and the Selmers. One time I was at a music store comparing a Selmer and a Buffet. Someone listened outside the room while I tried them, did not know which I was playing first, and he could not tell a difference between them.
Also, I bought a new R-13 in the 1980's for about $500. They are listed in the catalog I have for $2720. I would not say that the price has not changed much in the last 50 years.
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Author: Andy
Date: 2001-09-22 13:01
If we are going to talk about the traditional element of playing either a B, S, L or Y, why doesn't the Boosey and Hawkes 10 10 come up? Many pros of the past generation of players swore by these horns, and some, especially in the UK still do.
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2001-09-22 18:00
Never seen anyone play a 10-10 here in the states. I've heard alot about them though.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-09-22 18:51
Andy wrote:
>
> If we are going to talk about the traditional element of
> playing either a B, S, L or Y, why doesn't the Boosey and
> Hawkes 10 10 come up? Many pros of the past generation of
> players swore by these horns, and some, especially in the UK
> still do.
In making recommendations, people will tend to recommend those models that are still in production or are the direct predecessors to current production (e.g. the Buffet Evettes are predecessors to the Buffet E-11). Since B & H bought out Buffet, they no longer make clarinets under the B & H name or of the B & H style.
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2001-09-22 20:33
I believe Peter Eaton makes clarinets based on the large bore 10-10 but with improved intonation.
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2001-09-25 18:26
I recently restored a Boosey & Hawkes Symphony 1010 for a gentleman out on the Left (Incorrect) Coast of the U.S. of A. It was a lovely instrument, with a really nice sound that I found to be noticeably different than the French-clarinet sound we're used to here in the Colonies. The intonation was better than I expected, after all the scary things I'd read about big-bore English clarinets. I think it's a shame that the current generation of English players seems to have abandoned the 1010 and their unique sound, and the U.K clarinetists now sound just like everyone else. I'm not a big fan of musical homogeneity. I used to be able to identify at least the national origin of an orchestra, if not the exact identify of the orchestra, by listening to the oboe and/or clarinet sounds for a minute or so. Nowadays, every orchestra anywhere in the world sounds like every other orchestra to me, partly because the clarinet (and, to a lesser degree, the double-reed) players all sound pretty much alike. Although this is certainly a controversial topic, IMHO there used to be fairly well-defined national "schools" of clarinet playing, but these are gone now (if they ever existed at all).
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Author: dave bermes
Date: 2002-02-13 21:27
hello, i was wondering who the artist was that play the prueffer. i own one and have been using it for years on jobs. i think it plays as well as my centered tone and is nearly indestructible. alas i am only a jazz muscian and probably can't tell the diff. thanks yours Dave Bermes
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