 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Jim
Date: 2001-09-18 02:00
How can you tell if a clarinet stamped Buffet Crampon, is an R-13 ?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mindy
Date: 2001-09-18 02:11
If it is the original barrel then it should say R-13 and then a few numbers.....that is one way I know how to find out.
Mindy
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: janlynn
Date: 2001-09-18 12:03
i have the same question as jim. i have a Buffet Crampon that was given to me by my parents in 1985. they got it from someone my father worked with who told them it was an R13 but it doesnt say R13 anywhere on the instrument. how can i find out if this is truly an R13?
thanks JL
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: mw
Date: 2001-09-18 12:12
It has been said many times that one has to be careful identifying a Buffet R-13 by it's barrel, since they are oft changed out for intontaion purposes. A stock Buffet R-13 barrle does not say R-13, but lists a Buffet product numvber or code 1131-Bb,
1231=A, 1531=Eb (but that's OTTOMH).
Actually, the best way is to observe no markings, except the trademark circle with the writings "Buffet" at the top "A Paris" at the bottom & "Crampon & Cie" in cursive in the Middle) .... such markings on the U/J, L/J & Bell. Then you will be able to take the (hopefully) matching serial numbers & determine by the various Serial Number Lists available .... that it falls within such ranges. Buffet R-13 have no Letters. French counterparts (said to be roughly equivalent but possibly tuning at 442 --- I have never tried to tune) may have such things as an "F" in front of 5 or 6 numeric digits.
best,
mw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2001-09-18 12:48
It's been documented here and on the Klarinet list before that the R13 is the one model that Buffet provides no marking for on the upper joint other than the Buffet logo. Other models have a model ID below the Buffet logo on the upper joint. The one exception to this may be instruments made around 1980 - 81. As I recall, there is discussion in the Klarinet archives that, when Buffet made the switch from the Evette and Evette & Schaeffer designations to the E11, E12, E13 designations, there was a period of a year or so that they did not mark any of the instruments. I don't recall if this was ever actually confirmed. According to Buffet, the F- serial numbered instruments are R13's made for the European market. They are made to tune at A=442.
Be aware, however, that there are R13's and there are R13's. Buffet's importer for many years, Carl Fischer, adopted the designation as far back as 1941 (and probably further) as a catalog number for the 17-key, 6-ring version of Buffet's professional (master bore) clarinet. Buffet did not adopt the designation until around 1955 when they introduced Robert Carree's new design, which included a combination of polycylindrical bore and undercut tone holes. This is the instrument many clarinetists are thinking of when they use the term R13. There are only two ways (that I am aware of) to tell the difference between the two. For most instruments, the easy one is the serial number. In theory, any "R13" made before 1955 is a master bore and any made after 1955 is a polycylindrical bore. There are two problems, however. First, while Buffet puts the introduction date as 1955, some clarinetists believe it to have been earlier. (I'm inclined to believe Buffet on this, however, because their factory records are extremely accurate and detailed, at least since WWII.) The second problem is within 1955, itself. I have never seen a specific serial number that signifies the switch so there are some instruments that are too close to call. The only other way to tell is to measure the bore but that takes skills and tools that many of us don't have. Actually, now that I think of it, there may be another way to tell. Because the bores are different, the overall lengths of the instruments might also be. This is a possibility worth exploring.
Based on a quick-and-dirty look at Mark's serial number list, I would say that if your instrument's serial number is below 40,000, it is probably a master bore (or its predecessor, if there is one). If the serial number is above 55,000, it's probably a polycylindrical bore. In between, you're on your own.
Best regards,
jnk
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: mw
Date: 2001-09-18 15:51
Jack Kissinger said:
"I'm inclined to believe Buffet on this, however, because their factory records are extremely accurate and detailed, at least since WWII."
----------------------------
Hmmm ... better move that up a number of years. V-E Day was May, 1945. V-J Day was September, 1945. From this point forward to 1948 to 1950, depending upon who you listen to, Buffet was near-bankrupt .... technically insolvent. They started making their way back around 1950.
I think that the BETTER recordkeeping began well into the 1950's, commensurate with Buffet's BETTER financial condition.
best,
mw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
